True 20 / Blue Rose

[Griffonsec]

I bought Blue Rose for the system before True 20 came out, but last night, while I was perusing the Companion it occurred to me that I should maybe concider buying True 20 itself instead.

So, just from a mechanics stand point, how much is different? Should I buy the Companion and keep up with Blue Rose, or is everything I need in the True 20 PDF?

Any idea how long until we can expect a print version of True 20?

 

[DnDChick]

I don't have the Blue Rose book, so I can't really ennumerate any differences.

One main difference I am aware of is that AFAIK, in Blue Rose one's Toughness save increases with level. In True20, this is not the case. In True20 Toughness is equal to your Constitution only and can only be increased with the Great Toughness feat. Instead of boosting resistance to injury, the True20 system gives characters a bonus to defense equal to their combat bonus. In short, you're harder to hit, but not harder to hurt.


I think the True 20 print publication is due out in February 2006.


Try the True20 forum, too ...

http://www.greenronin.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=24

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Also, in Blue Rose, melee attacks are modified by Strength (unless Weapon Finesse is used) and ranged attacks are modified by Dexterity (like in D&D). In True20, all attacks are modified by Dexterity (no Weapon Finesse feat).

 

[Terwox]

Str modifies your AC versus melee attacks if it is higher than Dex.
It's a kinda neat change, although it does make Dex about as good in a way that D&D's strength is better than most stats... but it's in a different way, and if you pump dex you just won't hit as hard... but you'll hit more often in addition to dodging better.
etc, etc.
True20 is... maybe worth checking out if you own Blue Rose. Non-escalating toughness is good but it's easy to do on your own.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Yeah, and in Blue Rose armor makes you harder to hit, while in True20 armor is added to the Toughness save (and combat bonus is added to defense, as stated above).

 

[Wrathamon]

also the magic system is a bit different

they split the arcane up into categories and by primary attribute and True 20 has none of that.

they also have corrupting sorcery and true 20 doesn't

they use tarot card type for light and shadow while true 20 has a similiar system but isnt as detailed.

Skill systems are different - BR has two different types of skills, favored and known. True 20 treats all skills as favored if known.
Also, BR has Knacks that enhance your skills, true 20 doesnt (but you could easily add that)

I think that is the only other differences besides some different arcana/powers and feats.

BR has backgrounds and true20 doesnt (but will)

 

[tsadkiel]

BR has backgrounds and true20 doesnt (but will)

True20 does now. The PDF includes Human, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Half Elf, and Half Orc, as well as rules for making more.

 

[radferth]

To echo just about everybody else, the rules difference that leaps out is the armor/toughness thing. Blue Rose uses the typical D&D mechanic where armor makes it harder to hit and your toughness increases with level. True 20 uses the Runequest (I'm sure there are many others) mechanic where armor is damage resistance and you get harder to hit, rather than tougher, as you rise in level. As I was working on converting Runequest to a BR/T20 type system, I picked up the True 20 PDF and was mostly impressed. As for the magic system, Blue Rose's is a bit more complex, and it feels like a complete (if fairly campaign specific) magic system. True 20's is simpler and highly generic. While there is nothing wrong with it per se, I don't think I would ever run a campaign with it unless magic was very rare, as there would not be enough variety to keep it interesting.

As for a recomendation, I was a bit surprised to see True 20 go for the different armor mechanic that Blue Rose. Or perhaps I should say that I am surprised that few other d20 games have doen this. When one looks at the overall effect of the armor/toughness rules, it works out this way: In Blue Rose, armor is great for fighter types at low level, but since you get an increases dodge bonus as you go up in level, and since armor in BR has a max dodge value, characters will want lighter and then no armor as they increase in level. This is a bit odd if you think about it too much, but I like how it lets armor be necessary for soldiers, where heroic, high-level fighters don't need it as much. In T20, on the other hand, your defensive bonus increases faster that in BR, and is unaffected by armor. However, armor doesn't really absorb damge like in a system with hp, it provides a toughness save bonus, so there is no threshold below which you can completely ignore damage. This means that 1) armor is effective at all character levels. Whatever armor your character likes at first level will likely be what they always like. And 2) since armor is merely the easiest way to increase your toughness save, and your main defense should be to avoid being hit, the end would be that armor nearly always helps, but is not a virtual requirement. Not having played T20 much, I can't say for sure if this is how it works; unlike in BR where one can easily calculate which armor one should wear. I don't know if this helps you at all, but hopefully it give you a bit more info for the decision.

 

[Banshee16]

To echo just about everybody else, the rules difference that leaps out is the armor/toughness thing. Blue Rose uses the typical D&D mechanic where armor makes it harder to hit and your toughness increases with level. True 20 uses the Runequest (I'm sure there are many others) mechanic where armor is damage resistance and you get harder to hit, rather than tougher, as you rise in level. As I was working on converting Runequest to a BR/T20 type system, I picked up the True 20 PDF and was mostly impressed. As for the magic system, Blue Rose's is a bit more complex, and it feels like a complete (if fairly campaign specific) magic system. True 20's is simpler and highly generic. While there is nothing wrong with it per se, I don't think I would ever run a campaign with it unless magic was very rare, as there would not be enough variety to keep it interesting.

As for a recomendation, I was a bit surprised to see True 20 go for the different armor mechanic that Blue Rose. Or perhaps I should say that I am surprised that few other d20 games have doen this. When one looks at the overall effect of the armor/toughness rules, it works out this way: In Blue Rose, armor is great for fighter types at low level, but since you get an increases dodge bonus as you go up in level, and since armor in BR has a max dodge value, characters will want lighter and then no armor as they increase in level. This is a bit odd if you think about it too much, but I like how it lets armor be necessary for soldiers, where heroic, high-level fighters don't need it as much. In T20, on the other hand, your defensive bonus increases faster that in BR, and is unaffected by armor. However, armor doesn't really absorb damge like in a system with hp, it provides a toughness save bonus, so there is no threshold below which you can completely ignore damage. This means that 1) armor is effective at all character levels. Whatever armor your character likes at first level will likely be what they always like. And 2) since armor is merely the easiest way to increase your toughness save, and your main defense should be to avoid being hit, the end would be that armor nearly always helps, but is not a virtual requirement. Not having played T20 much, I can't say for sure if this is how it works; unlike in BR where one can easily calculate which armor one should wear. I don't know if this helps you at all, but hopefully it give you a bit more info for the decision.

This sounds really cool....I flipped through Blue Rose in the store, but because it wasn't entirely interchangeable with regular D20, and partly because of the setting, which I was reading really conflicting reviews about, I held off, in favour of waiting to see what True20 would be like.

I did find the magic system kind of neat. IIRC, it was a skill-based spellcasting system, that does require a roll to cast successfully, included a fatigue mechanic, and was point-based or something where you'd have a type of effect (ie. conjure fire) and how high you made the success DC determined whether you were casting a fireball or a burning hands, etc. Is that correct? Is the True 20 spellcasting system like that?

Am I correct in thinking that the combat system basically means that it relies more on movement, parrying etc., that those defenses go up in level, and that if you *do* get hit, it's possible for even a high-level character to get dropped by a lower level one with a lucky hit?

Banshee

 

[Skywalker]

Is that correct? Is the True 20 spellcasting system like that?

Yes, roughly. Some specific applications require either additional powers or feats, such as using fire shaping to attack someone requires the elemental strikepoweer and weather shaping is an additional power that requires you have wind and water shaping powers.

Am I correct in thinking that the combat system basically means that it relies more on movement, parrying etc., that those defenses go up in level, and that if you *do* get hit, it's possible for even a high-level character to get dropped by a lower level one with a lucky hit?

Yes. Attack and Defence are now comparable in progression. In True 20 you can choose to parry or dodge. Parry allows you to use your strength and wear heavy armour. However, it only works on melee attacks.

Toughness never increases over levels except through some feats. However, Conviction (hero points) do increase with level and can save a high level PC's bacon.

As a result, a high level True 20 PC will be hurt by an arrow as much as a low level one. However, the high level one is harder to hit and avoid the injury due to the drama. The feel is very much like the Lord of the Rings movies.