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True Strike and Invisibility question

I'm sorry KD, but I disagree. True Strike gives you a +20 on your attack and guarantees that you will not miss because of concealment. That's the extent of it's benefits.

It does not reveal invisible foes, it simply guarantees that you won't suffer the 50% miss chance.

You still have to know where to shoot/attack before this helps you. If you are firing 20 feet to the left, the arrow isn't going to curve around to the right. And the spell doesn't tell you exactly where they are located. It simply doesn't.

If you fire in the wrong direction, it isn't concealment that making you miss. It's the fact that you aren't shooting the right direction.

A DC 20 spot check will reveal this information, or a good listen check.
 

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Caliban said:
I'm sorry KD, but I disagree. True Strike gives you a +20 on your attack and guarantees that you will not miss because of concealment. That's the extent of it's benefits.

It does not reveal invisible foes, it simply guarantees that you won't suffer the 50% miss chance.

You still have to know where to shoot/attack before this helps you. If you are firing 20 feet to the left, the arrow isn't going to curve around to the right. And the spell doesn't tell you exactly where they are located. It simply doesn't.

If you fire in the wrong direction, it isn't concealment that making you miss. It's the fact that you aren't shooting the right direction.

A DC 20 spot check will reveal this information, or a good listen check.

Yes! Yes! The true Sage agrees with me! (Skips off into the rainbow...)

(Skips back from the rainbow...) Whoops! One disagreement - a DC 20 Spot check only reveals the presence of "an active invisible creature within 30 ft" (DMG, pg.78). A DC 40 Spot check will reveal the exact spot, and then one can use the True Strike to hit it without a miss chance.

(Skips back off into the rainbow...)
 
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Caliban said:
I'm sorry KD, but I disagree. True Strike gives you a +20 on your attack and guarantees that you will not miss because of concealment. That's the extent of it's benefits.

It does not reveal invisible foes, it simply guarantees that you won't suffer the 50% miss chance.

You still have to know where to shoot/attack before this helps you. If you are firing 20 feet to the left, the arrow isn't going to curve around to the right. And the spell doesn't tell you exactly where they are located. It simply doesn't.

If you fire in the wrong direction, it isn't concealment that making you miss. It's the fact that you aren't shooting the right direction.

A DC 20 spot check will reveal this information, or a good listen check.

Ok. You are allowed your opinion.

But, it's magic Caliban. In addition, it is divination magic. It allows you to know exactly where to strike, just like it allows you to know exactly where to strike vs. Displacement.

Personally, I think dropping the miss chance is the crucial piece of the spell with regard to this question.

Why is it that True Strike negates the benefits of the 4th level Displacement? Or 2nd level Blur?

But, not 2nd level Invisibility or 1st level Obscuring Mist?

It's not that you are shooting north when the opponent is south, it's that the spell let's you know to shoot south in the first place.

It's divination magic. You DIVINE crucial information. The characters around you who have not cast a divination spell have no clue where the opponent is without other means.


And, please. On the listen check idea.

Are you telling me that at 70 feet away, you can pick out the EXACT 5 foot square an invisible character is by listening?

Do it blindfolded in a park with a friend. Have him be about 50 or 70 or 90 feet away and have him say a 3 second sentence in a clear voice and then walk 30 feet in a random direction and you tell me how you know where he is. Or even where he was for that matter.


The fact is that True Strike is one of the few spells capable of temporarily negating Invisibility and then, only for a single round for a single character.

If it can totally blow away Displacement, it's divination power is strong enough to blow away Invisibility or Obscuring Mist.


The interpretation that negating the miss chance of an invisible target actually MEANS anything is bogus.

I'm invisible. I can almost guarantee you that negating the miss chance won't do squat because you will never figure out what space I'm located within in the first place.

You especially will not do that if I'm Flying and my invisibility is due to Improved Invisibility.

The negation of miss chance is basically worthless against total concealment if the spell does not divine the target's location.

It does not make sense to get rid of the miss chance and then not let the caster know where his target is located. You basically castrate the spell with regard to total concealment and say that it only works against less than total concealment.

Err, where in the spell does it say that it works great against less than total concealment, but hardly at all against total concealment? If they didn't want it to work well against total concealment, shouldn't they have indicated that crucial piece of information?
 

Hmmm - I AM inclined to agree with KD on this one... strangely enough.

My complaint would be that whatever strikes the character would have to "reveal" the location.

If you hit something invisible with an arrow - it doesn't necessarily reveal the location.

I would probably mandate spot checks for other characters to "see where the arrow struck".

Some readied actions could do a whole lot of damage if the character delayed long enough to have others "cast this wherever My buddy shoots". and the spot checks were made.
 
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had no idea that a simple question from me could set off so many people.

Ahh, chaos, anarchy, confusion, maddness..... my work here is done. well something to that effect.
 

Arcanus said:
had no idea that a simple question from me could set off so many people.

And did you get an answer?

Otherwise, I'd like to say: Yes. True Strike helps you against invisible creatures. :D
 
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Magus_Jerel said:
Hmmm - I AM inclined to agree with KD on this one... strangely enough.

My complaint would be that whatever strikes the character would have to "reveal" the location.

If you hit something invisible with an arrow - it doesn't necessarily reveal the location.

I would probably mandate spot checks for other characters to "see where the arrow struck".

Some readied actions could do a whole lot of damage if the character delayed long enough to have others "cast this wherever My buddy shoots". and the spot checks were made.

Ok, but how will the spell work in the first place if you can't declare a target?
 

Axiomatic Unicorn said:

Ok, but how will the spell work in the first place if you can't declare a target?

Well, the target of True Strike is you[\].

You are given insight. You are given an edge. You ignore miss chances and get +20 to hit.

You also get to decide who you want to get the +20 versus. Just like all combat, you can decide whom you wish to attack.

Any character can attack the invisible guy at any time. The difference is that most characters will not know where he is, so they will be guessing. True Strike is magic that takes the guess work away for the caster.
 

You still have to declare a target for your attack.

How would that work?
You walk into a seemingly unoccupied room, cast True Strike, and say "I will shoot the invisible guy I think is in this room" and fire at random?

What?
 
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