True Strike as a Swift Action

[mrtauntaun]

I had alluded to this combo in my earlier post, but I guess I should spell it out.

Start with a BAB of +20.

Power Attack gives 2 for 1 when used with a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon used in two hands. It doesn't matter which side you fall on in the old argument about whether a lance gives 2 for 1 Power Attack when used in one hand when mounted - just do whatever is necessary in your view to give the lance 2 for 1 Power Attack. This coverts the BAB of +20 to a damage bonus of +40.

Add in Leap Attack from Complete Adventurer. I can't find anything in the feat which would suggest that it cannot be used when mounted, and if a Medium sized humanoid jumping down on you at the end of a charge is going to make you hurt extra, a Medium sized humanoid mounted on a Large mount jumping down on you at the end of a charge is likely to make you hurt double extra. Leap Attack has been errata'ed to state that when you make a Leap Attack, "you deal +100% of the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat." Note that it's not a doubling. It's +100%, which in this case makes the bonus damage from Power Attack +80.

Now, throw in ten levels of Cavalier from Complete Warrior. The Unstoppable Charge ability allows a Cavalier to deal quintuple (5x) damage with a lance. The damage from this combo is +400 from the conversion of BAB to damage alone. That's enough damage to kill practically everything in the Monster Manual apart from the largest dragons and the Tarrasque.

I was only refering to the core of Power Attack and True strike. You can break many things with all the other supplimental books out there. But I can see your point when factoring in all of this.

In regards to the other posters who mentioned it's a bit much as a first level spell, please reread my post (no offense intended). Again, by the time you have the feats and a large enough BAB to make this tactic even remotely useful, it will be on par with other spells of the current level. And to make it even more useful, you would have to go up in a class that recieved BAB every level, such as a fighter, foresaking future Arcane Spells. So the loss of high level powerfull spells is offset by this power attack. Not a huge deal here.
It can even be countered in numerous ways as well. Damage reduction/negating magics and the like. Concealment. Mischance.
Even if you went with a PrC, it would only increase this marginally, IMO, but I have not seen every PrC, either, so that can be taken with a grain of salt.
Powerful? Certainly. Game breaking? Certainly not. Heck, IMO, I think Phantasmal Killer is more broken than this. But those are just my thoughts.

 

[AuraSeer]

And to make it even more useful, you would have to go up in a class that recieved BAB every level, such as a fighter, foresaking future Arcane Spells.

This sentence illustrates the point you're missing. Future spells are irrelevant here because this tactic isn't useful for high-level casters. We're talking about dedicated warriors who have taken one level in an arcanist class, just to gain access to true strike. That's what "front-loaded" means.

True strike is a first level spell, and has full effectiveness at caster level 1. A FrtX/Wiz1 can cast it just as well as a Wiz20. As written, the only reason for a warrior NOT to use it as often is possible is the opportunity cost-- the casting uses up a round.

If the spell were a swift action instead, it would be immensely stronger for multiclass warrior-mages. A Ftr19/Sor1 would be much more powerful than a Ftr20, because three attacks per day would get a free +40 damage (or much, much more).

 

[Zimbel]

I was only refering to the core of Power Attack and True strike. You can break many things with all the other supplimental books out there. But I can see your point when factoring in all of this.

In regards to the other posters who mentioned it's a bit much as a first level spell, please reread my post (no offense intended). Again, by the time you have the feats and a large enough BAB to make this tactic even remotely useful, it will be on par with other spells of the current level. And to make it even more useful, you would have to go up in a class that recieved BAB every level, such as a fighter, foresaking future Arcane Spells. So the loss of high level powerfull spells is offset by this power attack. Not a huge deal here.
It can even be countered in numerous ways as well. Damage reduction/negating magics and the like. Concealment. Mischance.

Okay, let's stay straight core:
LV 1 Wiz/LV 19 Fighter
Bab: +19
Feat: Spirited Charge
Weapon: lance (wielded w/ 2 hands)
Max power attack: +38 * 3 = 114 points of damage. (and +1 to hit, since it's only PA: 19)
Granted, there is a 5% miss chance, but there's also a 5-10% crit chance (for an extra 76 points). This reduces damage slightly at the low end, raises it at the high end.

Converting this damage to d6, this is roughly 32d6 worth of damage. That's more than the recomended amount for a LV 9 spell.

Concealment does not help. from the SRD: "Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target."

 

[mrtauntaun]

If the spell were a swift action instead

If it were a swift action, and remaining a level 1 spell (not a 5th level as aluded to before) THAT would be abusive and game breaking. However, as it stands, I do not believe it to be game breaking, even if 1 wiz/19 fighter. Munchkiny, for sure.
And I believe the future spells do matter, though it is not a 1:1 comparison. A 20th level wizard can do close (but not quite, hence the lack of the 1:1) the same ammount of raw damage as now 1/19 fighter. However, the Wizard can wish and fly and do all sorts of other equally, if not more, powerful things at such a level. Both have an advantange, but neither substantially more than the other.

Concealment does not help. from the SRD: "Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target."

I did not know that part of true strike, thank you.

In your above example, that's Level 20! At that high a level, I do not see it being that big a problem for 1 attack. Especially with the types of mosters and encounters players will be facing at CR 20. There is no garuntee that attack will succeed, and there are still many counters available, especially for CR 20 opponents.

 

[Dimwhit]

So one common them I'm getting is that it's too powerful because a knight with a lance could do 9000 points of damage in a single strike. But what does that have to do with True Strike being a swift action or not? You can do that regardless. It's just a question of whether you have to cast the spell the round before or the beginning of the round. For that much damage, does it really matter?

All people are showing is that True Strike is a very powerful 1st level spell. None of that changes if it's a swift action or not.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So one common them I'm getting is that it's too powerful because a knight with a lance could do 9000 points of damage in a single strike. But what does that have to do with True Strike being a swift action or not? You can do that regardless. It's just a question of whether you have to cast the spell the round before or the beginning of the round. For that much damage, does it really matter?

All people are showing is that True Strike is a very powerful 1st level spell. None of that changes if it's a swift action or not.

You don't seem to place the same value on 1 round's worth of actions that I do.

Consider that the knight with the lance can currently do *ahem* 9000 points of damage once every other round using this tactic.

If True Strike were swift, he could do it every round. That's *ahem* 18,000 points of damage.

 

[Dimwhit]

For one, he can't do it all day. Maybe, what, three or four times? Plus, don't you need to wheel around before you make another charge? Seems like it would be tough to charge an opponent every round.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

For one, he can't do it all day. Maybe, what, three or four times?

That's quite enough.

Plus, don't you need to wheel around before you make another charge? Seems like it would be tough to charge an opponent every round.

No, you don't. 3.x has no facing. "Wheeling around" is a free action. Once you have Ride-By Attack (which you need for Spirited Charge) you can indeed, with enough space, charge an opponent every single round.

 

[Dimwhit]

So horses, in mid stride, can turn 180 degrees as a free action and keep running? I know if the knight was on a Giant Eagle and flying, making the same charge, that would not be possible.

Sounds like something else is broken. No way should you be able to do a mounted charge on the same target every round.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So horses, in mid stride, can turn 180 degrees as a free action and keep running?

So everyone, in mid-stride, in D&D, can turn 180 degrees as a free action and keep running?