Truesight and grappling

[Otterscrubber]

In our group we have a fighter mage who likes to cast truestike and then hit with a fully power attacked sword swing. In our last adventure the monster caught on and tried to grapple the fighter mage before his blow could land. Does his true stike +20 bonus to next attack roll help with this defensive grapple roll, even though he was in fact defending and not attacking with it?

 

[hong]

A grapple check is not an attack roll, so the true strike wouldn't work.

 

[Otterscrubber]

That's how we ruled it as well, just watned to see if that was the general consensus. Thanks.

 

[Mahali]

Next time just trip him.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree... I'd say True Strike, Bless, Prayer, etc would all give bonuses to a grapple check.

However, I'd only apply the True Strike bonus to the first grapple check the recipient initiated, not to a defensive check.

1. Lots of modifiers affect the attack roll, such as... a +1 morale bonus if you're the recipient of a bless spell, ... etc. (PHB p118)

2. Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier (PHB p118)

3. A grapple check is something like a melee attack roll. (PHB p137)

4. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier (PHB p137)

A grapple check is a roll that gets an attack bonus - I'd call it an attack roll.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

A grapple check is not an attack roll. The PHB spells out exactly what modifiers apply to a grapple check.

4. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier (PHB p137)

If a grapple check was an attack roll, the rules would state that you make opposed attack rolls, not opposed grapple checks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A grapple check is not an attack roll. The PHB spells out exactly what modifiers apply to a grapple check.

If a grapple check was an attack roll, the rules would state that you make opposed attack rolls, not opposed grapple checks.

Notice that the PHB spells out exactly what modifiers apply to a melee attack as well - they differ from grapple check in that "size modifier" is replaced by "special size modifier"... and yet you add morale bonuses, insight bonuses, luck bonuses, enhancement bonuses, profane bonuses, etc, etc anyway.

The distinction between melee attack rolls and grapple checks is that for grappling, bigger is better, not worse.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

The reason you add all of those other modifiers is because the modifiers says it applies to attack rolls. When a modifier says it applies to grapple rolls, you add that to your grapple checks.

That doesn't make the two things the same.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The reason you add all of those other modifiers is because the modifiers says it applies to attack rolls. When a modifier says it applies to grapple rolls, you add that to your grapple checks.

But a grapple check does not have a grapple bonus - it has an attack bonus.

Attack Roll: when you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus.

Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is...
With a ranged weapon, your attack bonus is...
Your attack bonus on a grapple check is...

Grappling is one of "an assortment of other special attacks". A Bard's Inspire Greatness ability gives "a +2 competence bonus on attacks" - note, not 'attack rolls'. Since grappling is an attack, would you allow this +2 to affect it?

Since it's an attack that uses the d20 plus attack bonus mechanic, I have no trouble at all considering a grapple check to be an attack roll.

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree then.