"Try Castles & Crusades", they say. But no one's playing it!

[Shadowslayer]

My FLGS doesn't stock C&C either. But he doesn't stock a lot of stuff that's not WOTC or WoD. But he'll order it for me, and a few other locals that are playing it. So just because its not on the shelves doesn't mean its not being played. (Amazon anyone?)

Also, my group, and admittedly we don't play C&C all the time, is not made up of message board posters...I'm the only one. (and even then, a sporadic one) I'd be willing to bet the overall percentage of gamers who actually post a lot is a small one. So just because the "C&C supporter" posters are vocal-but-few, doesn't mean the game's not being played.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...take everything you see on message boards with a grain of salt...even the senior members. (All a high post count means is more time spent not actually playing the games they're arguing about.)

Bottom line...C&C stuff is selling, apparently fairly well, and there's a lot more stuff in the works...from the Trolls, Goodman, and the guy who'd doing Wilderlands. Last time I looked, these companies weren't charities. They wouldn't be planning this stuff if no one's buying.

So someone's playing it.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Okay, quick C&C question. Is there a difference between printings of the C&CPHB? My FLBNVLGS (that's Friendly Large But Not Very Local Gaming Store, as opposed to my actual FLGS) shows that they have 2 PHB's in stock, but also shows them as OOP, which is odd. Also, what's included in the Deluxe Case?

2nd printing is cleaned up and formatted much nicer. The 1st was an atrocity. Quickest way to tell the difference, look at the spell section. If there's white space between each spell, its the 2nd. If the whole thing runs together with the spell titles merely bolded, then its the 1st.

The deluxe case I can't help you with.

 

[Agamon]

When I hear my gaming buddies, especially those from groups that don't know and socialize with each other typically, start to talk about it separately, when I notice non-gaming bookstores starting to carry C&C books, when I notice my FLGS regularly restocking C&C every week when they lay out their new merchandise before they put it out on the shelves, then I'll think it might be more than a mildly profitable niche game.

And it is. I'm not sure I understand why people take offense to the opinion that it's a niche game. People that like cult TV shows/movies and underground music hate when their secret goes mainstream.

 

[GeorgeFields]

Also, what's included in the Deluxe Case?

Here you go.
http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/8000.html

 

[Agamon]

Here you go.
http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/8000.html

$30? Sentry Box is selling it for $80. I'm not sure the Deluxe Box and Collector's Box is the same thing...

Edit: Okay I found it. And whether or not I play it, I think I want it...

 

[GeorgeFields]

$30? Sentry Box is selling it for $80. I'm not sure the Deluxe Box and Collector's Box is the same thing...

Edit: Okay I found it. And whether or not I play it, I think I want it...

Yeah, That's a BIG difference there. Sorry for the confusion.

Good night, all!!

Hail & Peace

 

[ruleslawyer]

Except it doesn't.

All your examples use the same mechanic: roll a d20, apply modifiers, and see if you hit the target number. What are the parallel rules or different subsystems that you're talking about?

By that logic, C&C is no simpler to play than D&D; after all, D&D (or Midnight, or Conan, or Iron Heroes, or Black Company) all use the "roll d20, apply modifiers, and see if you hit the target" mechanic. Are we now saying that D&D only has one rule to cover everything and that those hundreds of things indexed in the PHB, DMG, splatbooks, et cetera are not rules (plural)?\

As for class abilities, things like hiding and climbing are NOT exclusive -- anyone can hide and anyone can climb; certain classes are better at it or can perform the action when others would find it impossible (e.g. climbing sheer walls with no equipment). Flanking is handled by your position in combat, no matter who you are; C&C uses facing, so if you attack from the flank, you get a flanking bonus to hit. Fighting with two weapons is handled by a set of penalties, no matter who you are: -3 primary hand and -6 off-hand, modified by Dex.

The description of the ranger class rather clearly contradicts that. C&C has prime requisite rules to cover hiding and climbing, which are separate from the way class abilities do it. That's two separate sets of rules right there where D&D has one (the Hide/Climb skill).

Yeah, I was totally off on flanking; I didn't read the C&C book right (the 1e text on this is not so good; the second edition [printing?] is better). Text in the rogue (er, thief) entry suggested that only certain classes can flank. My bad.

 

[Akrasia]

... when I know probably 3 dozen gamers in this city in real life from multiple social circles, and none ever talk about it, or play it ...

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact that the 36 gamers you know in Lexington may not be an accurate representation of the worldwide RPG community?

I can't believe I have to make this point yet again: your anecdotal evidence is just that -- anecdotal. This should be obvious.

Obviously C&C is not comparable to 3e D&D, NWoD, or WFRP in terms of market share. But in contrast to other games out there, it seems to be quite a success.

Despite what 36 gamers in Lexington might think.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Here you go.
http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/8000.html

The digest/boxed set edition is a condensed version of the game. It's kind of like the "basic" version of C&C (i.e. like B/X to AD&D).

If you're interested in C&C, I'd recommend checking out the 2nd printing Players Handbook. The first printing, which is now out of print, but still floating around, needed editing and cleaning up. The second printing is a much improved presentation of the same rules.

 

[Akrasia]

And it is. I'm not sure I understand why people take offense to the opinion that it's a niche game. People that like cult TV shows/movies and underground music hate when their secret goes mainstream.

I certainly don't take offense to the fact that C&C is a 'niche game'. It is!

It just irks me when people claim, based on their own personal experiences in Circleville Ohio or Lexington Kentuky (or wherever), that because nobody they personally know is playing the game it is not a successful game, or is not being played by lots of gamers elsewhere. Such conclusions are just plain ridiculous.