TSR, WotC and Electronic Support: a loveless marriage

[malraux]

Okay yes, that's true: I forgot about the magazines. And a $6 one time fee would be awesome. I think it was like $70 a year. I planned on using it for more than a month though. Okay so maybe I'm being a bit negative, but it's still overpriced. I though I remember seeing the price and thinking "that's as much as a WOW account". I guess I have a selective memory or something. I'm also in need of a job, so everything seems expensive to me right now.

Its worth noting that you can sign up for an account, download everything you want, and then cancel the account and everything you downloaded stays active, just not update-able. So for a one month cost, you get the CB and MB, all previously released magazine issues, etc. That's a good value.

 

[Stoat]

WotC's mistake was talking about their plans/projects before they were (mostly) complete. If people had never heard of the virtual tabletop none of this nerdrage would exist.

I agree 100%. If WotC hadn't pumped up their vaporware they way they did, the conventional wisdom would be "Their electronic support is awesome!"

 

[Roland55]

$6 a month made you do that? Geeze, your butt must not be attached very well. Either that, or your gauge of what things cost these days needs calibration.

I mean, really, you have to search to get a decent sandwich for $6. It's what, maybe two coffees at Starbucks? Less than what you pay for a movie, never mind popcorn and a soda to go with it. If you play weekly, it's half what you'd pay to bring a bag of chips to every session.

Welcome to the 21st century.

"You must spread ..."

So ... I'll just put it here. Sarcastic -- but essentially 'spot on.'

 

[jeffh]

Put simply, WotC's 4E electronic tools are what happens when you try to build this stuff in-house. It's got nothing to do with "devotion" and everything to do with recognizing your corporate strengths and weaknesses. WotC is not a software company and should be outsourcing all software development beyond basic website work.

The problem with that is that in recent years, they have shown consistently poor judgment in choosing partners. Exhibit A: Whoever is in charge of their forums now. Exhibit B: Infogrammes. (Umbran's point that videogames are a separate thing is not without merit, but I do think it's symptomatic of a related problem.)

Code Monkey was, I gather, a good choice in terms of quality of products; unfortunately they appear to have been a tiny company no-one had heard of, so their stuff seems to have very little if any retail presence. Since then, though, the results of WotC outsourcing have not been conspicuously better than the results of them doing things in-house.

 

[Umbran]

I think that your perception of software development success metrics may be... not in touch with reality.

I think you're supporting my point.

The team that has delivered the Monster Builder and Character Builder tools have put in our hands stable, extensible, simple-to-use tools that deliver on the requirements that they were given.

Right, so WotC got some good people, they put out good products. And now? Is that team still developing? Have there been any new tools? Sure doesn't look like it. So, again, until they get those people, or someone like them, we aren't getting anything good.

I'd argue about how "extensible" the things are, by the way. My impression is that the tools are basically database-driven. Adding new classes, races, and powers is adding content, not extending functionality.

Granted, there are many features floating out in the collective community imagination that haven't been delivered, but that's not something to measure those folks by.

It is something to measure WotC's (past) understanding of software business by, as those features are in the community imagination because WotC used them as part of 4e marketing.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

@Rethhmalis. Starting at the the end. The compendium is not a simple collection of HTML and scripts but a we. Based database driven application where we only see the query engine. There is within WoTC a data entry application to allow WoTC to update and manage content. That database is replicated within the Character Builder and the Adventure Tools.

They did try to outsource Developement and that attempt failed. My opinion is that failure is in part because of WoTC inexperience and naivety in software development.

They also talked about stuff that was not ready for primetime.

 

[vic20]

I think you're supporting my point.

I don't follow, but you're welcome. Everybody needs a hand from time to time!

Right, so WotC got some good people, they put out good products. And now? Is that team still developing? Have there been any new tools? Sure doesn't look like it. So, again, until they get those people, or someone like them, we aren't getting anything good.

Is your point that the team can't deliver the goods, or that they haven't? Maybe both? Maybe you know something about the particulars of the team that I don't? You are definitely more connected in the industry than I am. That said, I do think that what they have actually delivered is great. I also think that what they have chosen to stop working on potentially speaks to a maturing, and perhaps a shifting of the power away from marketing.

I'd argue about how "extensible" the things are, by the way. My impression is that the tools are basically database-driven. Adding new classes, races, and powers is adding content, not extending functionality

When I talk about the extensibility, I'm referring to the architecture of the system to allow for all updates that have occured since the release (how many updates so far? lots!). I'm not talking about the extensibility support for external users, just for the team that integrates, tests, releases the stuff. In other words, the ability of the software to absorb all the new content, while improving its presentation and core functions. I'm not talking about adding features.

It is something to measure WotC's (past) understanding of software business by, as those features are in the community imagination because WotC used them as part of 4e marketing.

If your point is that marketing is evil, and have failed to not be evil in this particular instance, then I agree 100%. Marketing will make promises that can't be fulfilled, and leave good people feeling the emnity of an ungrateful public.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Right, so WotC got some good people, they put out good products. And now? Is that team still developing? Have there been any new tools? Sure doesn't look like it. So, again, until they get those people, or someone like them, we aren't getting anything good.

Someone is doing someything because stuff keeps changing in the CB and Adventure tools but the key question is, is there any other developers besides the one(s) doing maintenance on the existing stuff?

This we do not know.

I'd argue about how "extensible" the things are, by the way. My impression is that the tools are basically database-driven. Adding new classes, races, and powers is adding content, not extending functionality.

This I would agree with you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This is untrue. I found that out searching for the rules that govern familliars and animal companions. You get all the bits that get put on a character sheet but to understand how they actually work you need the physical book which also just so happens to have the other bits too.

As much as I like the monster builder the DDI is just a way of making you pay for the same material twice.

 

[Andramelech]

Its worth noting that you can sign up for an account, download everything you want, and then cancel the account and everything you downloaded stays active, just not update-able. So for a one month cost, you get the CB and MB, all previously released magazine issues, etc. That's a good value.

If you actually get all the past issues it sounds like a dam good deal. I was under the impression that it was a subscription that once cancelled, would cripple the software untill you rejoined (web based or something). It sounds like the way to work it is to join and quit. Then join after you buy a few books to get everything up to date, and quit again till you buy a few more books.

Contrary to what I had assumed, people seem to think it's a good value for what they've paid. I guess wizards is really F-ing themselves by not having the virtual game board thingy going. That would be a reason to pay every month consistently.