TSR TSR's War on Fans

[Alzrius]

Eh, I'd say this was more of a police action on fans. If you want to see a real war on fans, look no further than Kevin Siembieda.

 

[Eltab]

Not that uncommon. Look at Metallica.

I forget the award show, but seeing the head guy of Napster (pre-iPod music-sharing site) come out wearing a Metallica shirt was awesome.

 

[GreenTengu]

I'd add also that in addition to the fact that you, indeed, can't lose your copyright that way, 'defending' a trademark includes things like 'giving permission' or 'creating a license [like the OGL or d20 System STL]' or an online marketplace [like DMs Guild] or numerous other positive things you can choose to do rather than a C&D. 'Defending' is a word with baggage; I prefer 'protecting'. You don't want people to infringe on your IP, but there are many ways you can allow them to use your IP. Which means that claiming one has to declare war on their fans because the law is forcing them to is disingenuous at best. You never have to do that; you choose to.

That's all fine and good, but when you are dealing with "fans are posting online every number and every table and most of the passages of text of the books we print online for free and likely making them more accessible, interactive and easier to navigate than they are in our actual book" how exactly do you create a "license" around that?

Either you send them to stop and take it down until you have drafted such a thing and then figure out what fee to charge them for the right to make such things or... you make such a license and then go after them demanding whatever fee you decided on... or you just kind of accept that you are no longer going to be selling any books and thus no longer making any revenue and fold up shop.

It's not like their business ran off of selling people models and paints and scenery so if they spread the rules around for free, it would only affect a very small portion of your line and might boost sales for the rest. The books with all the tables and numbers were the primary product TSR was selling.

Looking at it from the point of view of the company-- what else could they have realistically done?

 

[Morrus]

That's all fine and good, but when you are dealing with "fans are posting online every number and every table and most of the passages of text of the books we print online for free and likely making them more accessible, interactive and easier to navigate than they are in our actual book" how exactly do you create a "license" around that?

Either you send them to stop and take it down until you have drafted such a thing and then figure out what fee to charge them for the right to make such things or... you make such a license and then go after them demanding whatever fee you decided on... or you just kind of accept that you are no longer going to be selling any books and thus no longer making any revenue and fold up shop.

It's not like their business ran off of selling people models and paints and scenery so if they spread the rules around for free, it would only affect a very small portion of your line and might boost sales for the rest. The books with all the tables and numbers were the primary product TSR was selling.

Looking at it from the point of view of the company-- what else could they have realistically done?

Exactly what WotC did. The d20 STL and SRD. Worked perfectly. Those fans became publishers and began driving sales of the core rulebooks via a tier of supplements WotC wasn’t interested in publishing. Then they created DMs Guild and made it even easier.

 

[Zardnaar]

OGL was kind of diasater there for WiTC. d20 glut the Pathfinder.

It's also not something that you could really do 25 years ago.

 

[Morrus]

OGL was kind of diasater there for WiTC.

Nonsense.

 

[Zardnaar]

Nonsense.

d20 glut and crash 2004, then Pathfinder? Hurt two of their editions badly.

 

[Morrus]

d20 glut and crash 2004, then Pathfinder? Hurt two of their editions badly.

Do I believe Ryan Dancey or Zardnaar? Hmmm....

 

[Zardnaar]

Do I believe Ryan Dancey or Zardnaar? Hmmm....

Good for you you're 3pp.

Dances heavy on how great he is.

As I said Pathfinder and the d20 glut/crash are things you can't really deny it's not objective they happened.

Is that a good thing or bad thing for WotC at the time?

 

[Zardnaar]

Well I guess the ad hominem mashed up with a solid No True Scotsman convinced me that everything I know is wrong.

My arguements more the OGL can be a double edged sword.

WotC I would argue made some mistakes but the genie was already out of the bottle.

If WotC was you company would you be happy about the d20 crash or Pathfinder. Probably not.

Obviously you're in a different position but roleplay being a D&D executive in that time frame and the same thing happened.

Not I would have done something different.

Took a few years of trial and error. OGL for me is more positive than negative.

I've got 30 odd D&D books, 3pp from Kobold Press, Dozens of adventures and almost 309 EN5ider articles.

I've stopped buying 3pp because I can't consume what I've got fast enough.

OGL accelerates that process of I've got enough stuff. It's good I suppose because I buy 3pp bad because I'm not going to buy it for long.