Tumbling Clarification

[DM-Rocco]

Actually, my reading is that he cannot do this. Tumble says it is used "as part of normal movement", which to me is a simply move action. I don't allow it in conjunction with a charge, Spring Attack, etc.

There is no definition of the word ‘normal’ under movement on pages 146-150 in the 3.5 PHB. I guess it depends on what the word normal means. In my opinion I think it refers to non-charging, otherwise, how do you define normal?

 

[DM-Rocco]

Spring Attack: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.

Tumble is, as you said, part of your "normal movement." So you Tumble while you move, which you can do both before and after a Spring Attack. I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

Um, he said it better than me

 

[DM-Rocco]

Not necesarily. He would make two checks, one for PC 3 and one for PC 4. If he makes it for one but not the other, he would only provoke once.

The order in which the checks are made is:

1 - DC 25 to move through the mages square. If it fails, nothing happens except that the assassins movement is stopped for the round. The assassin can try again immediately as part of a double move but could not Spring Attack and, therefor, would provoke an AoO from PC 1 at DC 21. If it succeeds, go to step 2.

2 - Make a check (DC 15) for either PC 3 or 4, since it provokes from both at the same time.

3 - Make a check (DC 17) for the PC who didn't make the check in step 2.

4 - Make a check (DC 19) for PC 2.

4 PCs = 4 separate checks

From the SRD: Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them... - This is for DC 15 (moving past)

Check separately for each opponent. - For DC 25 (moving through)

Okay, both actions have a stipulation that the DC goes up by +2 for each person they have to tumble through or around. Why would the DC for moving through an occupied area only be 25 instead of say 31 or 33?

 

[reveal]

Okay, both actions have a stipulation that the DC goes up by +2 for each person they have to tumble through or around. Why would the DC for moving through an occupied area only be 25 instead of say 31 or 33?

Because you're actually moving through one square. You moved past 3 squares. The two types of DC's don't overlap.

You have the base 25 for moving through and add a +2 for every other enemy square moved through. You have the base 15 for moving past and add a +2 for every other enemy square moved past.

 

[DM-Rocco]

In your new scenario, it's basically the same thing as before. PCs 3 and 4 both get AoOs against the assassin since he moved out of their threatened area. DCs 15 and 17 accordingly. PC 2 would get one at DC 19 since he's moving through PC 2's threatened area. The mage cannot make an AoO since he is unarmed and cannot make an AoO unarmed unless he has Improved Unarmed Strike. The Assassin makes a Tumble check DC 25 to move through PC 1 and, if successful, can attack from the other side.

If the assassin fails the check to get through PC 1 (DC 25), he would not provoke from PCs 2, 3, and 4 since he didn't actually move. PC 1 would get an AoO even though the assassin was Spring Attacking because he wasn't able to actually make the Spring Attack.

One more question on this, if there was a PC at A3 and the assassin then moved from the square under A2, after attacking, south a square would the DC be 21 or 23? I guess the question is, even though the mage is unarmed, would he increase the DC of the next roll? Does he get a roll even though he isn't a factor? The rule says nothing about only creatures that provoke AOO, or does it?

 

[reveal]

One more question on this, if there was a PC at A3 and the assassin then moved from the square under A2, after attacking, south a square would the DC be 21 or 23? I guess the question is, even though the mage is unarmed, would he increase the DC of the next roll? Does he get a roll even though he isn't a factor? The rule says nothing about only creatures that provoke AOO, or does it?

Since the mage does not threaten, there's no reason that he would add 2 to the DC. You only add +2 for each threatening critter. The DC would be 21 for a PC at A3.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Since the mage does not threaten, there's no reason that he would add 2 to the DC. You only add +2 for each threatening critter. The DC would be 21 for a PC at A3.

You have been most helpful, thank you and unless the other party concerned chimes in with a question, I think that answers it for us. Although, I usually ask more than enough questions to cover most bases

 

[reveal]

Although, I usually ask more than enough questions to cover most bases

Always the best idea.