Turn Devils & Demons

[Pielorinho]

Don't know about you, but a holy cleric forcing angels to cower in fear and awe don't strike me as being especially pertinent.

I agree entirely with your analysis and suggestions, and will add only one thing:

A demon is perfectly likely to attack an evil cleric, whereas a celestial is unlikely (barring strange circumstances) to attack a good cleric. Therefore, good clerics have another advantage over evil ones, and don't need the ability to rebuke/turn celestials.

You could just as easily say that lawful clerics can turn chaotic creatures, or that chaotic clerics can turn lawful creatures (axiomatic, right? I forget what the chaotic template is called).

IMC, I took a page from Neverwinter Nights (I think) and changed the domain powers of Good and Evil and Law and Chaos to allow the turning/rebuking of outsiders of the opposite alignment. This actually gives people a reason to take these domains, which are otherwise pretty sucky.

Daniel

 

[Shadowlord]

What did you exactly do with the domains you say? A good clr for ex with the Good domain, can he turn evil outsiders and rebuke good ones? Or can he only turn evil or rebuke good?

Problem is, all other powers do never allow both turning & rebuking, it's one or the other. It would seem clumsy if we "broke" that (unwritten) rule now.

 

[Pielorinho]

What did you exactly do with the domains you say? A good clr for ex with the Good domain, can he turn evil outsiders and rebuke good ones? Or can he only turn evil or rebuke good?

Well, the elemental powers allow you to rebuke your domain's elementals and turn the opposed element's critters.

Truth to tell, though, since nobody's started playing a cleric since I instituted this house rule, I haven't had to come up with details. Probably I'd rule something similar to above: everyone can turn outsiders with the opposite alignment (banishing instead of destroying them).

Daniel

 

[Shadowlord]

I hope this will find its place in the new books cause it's really good. Makes those alignment domains more worth it. Somthing like this I assume:

Granted Power:
Turn or destroy outsiders with the same alignment component as the domain (good, evil, chaotic, lawful) like a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke or command outsiders with an opposite alignment component as the domain (evil, good, lawful, chaotic) like an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

 

[Gez]

Granted Power:
Turn or destroy outsiders with the same alignment component as the domain (good, evil, chaotic, lawful) like a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke or command outsiders with an opposite alignment component as the domain (evil, good, lawful, chaotic) like an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

I assume you meant the reverse, didn't you ? Your cleric of Pelor could turn/banish an avoral, and rebuke/command a marilith, with that ruling...

IMHO, the good domain (and arguably the chaotic also) should not give you the possibility to command. Maybe pacify (effect roughly similar to a sanctuary spell) in case you are attacked by an good outsider summoned by an enemy (a perfectly plausible scene), but not rebuked/commanded. The chaotic domain could rebuke, but not command.

 

[Shadowlord]

Yes, I meant the reverse. It's kinda confusing.

I really think this should replace the (useless) powers in the reviewed books.

 

[AdamBank]

Originally posted by Gez Don't know about you, but a holy cleric forcing angels to cower in fear and awe don't strike me as being especially pertinent.

Actually, that's a classical image from historical myths of divine magicians, such as Christian theurgists and Jewish kabbalists.

 

[Gez]

Actually, that's a classical image from historical myths of divine magicians, such as Christian theurgists and Jewish kabbalists.

Don't get me started on the alignment I give them

 

[Aaron2]

Demons/Devils will probably need some sort of Turn Resistance to keep them from getting turned too easily. Any thoughts? I was thinking that some sort of bonus based on SR or spell caster level.


Aaron

 

[bigdndfan]

Turning demons and evils would make the ability too powerful.

You want to turn demons, become a Knight of the Chalice.

Make up your own prestige class for devils.