Turn Undead should be removed!

[Sitara]

Seriously. I am not big on turning undead. It cheapens undead encounter IMO; its also annoying how every single ravenloft game that starts automatically has a cleric of pelor with the sun domain! The ability also makes little sense, especailly when you are playing a homebrew which has no deities.

Am I the only one who hopes turn undead is out of 4e?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Well, it will almost certainly be significantly changed in 4E. It will probably be a damage effect, or some kind of ongoing status effect, or a combination of the two.

Turning undead, IMO, makes perfect sense (although the current mechanics certainly do suck), and it's too much a part of fantasy and horror genres to get rid of. You'd be better served by getting rid of characters who wield holy power or of undead ... but in a fantasy or horror setting where you have both, to not have some form of holy power specifically affecting undead (and just because they're undead) would seem pretty weird to me.

3.5 D&D, BTW, does a pretty good job of justifying turning undead, even in the absence of deities' involvement: undead are powered by negative energy, and turning is a channeling of positive energy. Negative flees from positive.

 

[Joker]

Negative flees from positive.

Shouldn't they attract?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Seriously. I am not big on turning undead. It cheapens undead encounter IMO; its also annoying how every single ravenloft game that starts automatically has a cleric of pelor with the sun domain! The ability also makes little sense, especailly when you are playing a homebrew which has no deities.

Am I the only one who hopes turn undead is out of 4e?

I like the idea, basically. The idea of a True Believer (TM) holding off undead (and evil outsiders!) with his faith is worthy enough to be included in the game. But it shouldn't feel tacked on, hard to adjucate, and find a balanced point between useless and overpowered...

 

[Fallen Seraph]

While the old 3.5 Turn Undead I didn't really like but as far as we can tell I really like the new one.

The idea of having mobs of undead and the cleric struggling to maintain Turn Undead to keep the undead at bay as the party creeps along to safety is very compelling.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Shouldn't they attract?

Only in physics and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

 

[hong]

Remind me what the new turn undead is like again...?

 

[Sitara]

But in movies, and other medium, it can be anyone who can hold off undead by brandishing a holy symbol and their faith. I mean, van helsing could be quantified more as a fighter than a cleric IMO.

Perhaps they could make it so that anyone with Knowledge (religion) as a trained skill AND a holy symbol of the campaign's deity can 'turn' undead. (say a skill check vs the undeads hit dice as a defence, or something).

 

[Jeff Wilder]

But in movies, and other medium, it can be anyone who can hold off undead by brandishing a holy symbol and their faith.

It depends on your source, I guess. Just as two pop culture references, Kitty Pryde (from The X-Men) can't hold off Dracula with a cross ... she tried. (Although she could with a Star of David. She's Jewish.) In Stephen King's Salem's Lot, Father Callahan failed to hold off Barlow with a cross, because his faith was too weak.

How they do the mechanics -- as long as they don't suck -- doesn't really matter to me, so I'd be fine with saying any True Believer who used a holy symbol of his faith could do it. But getting rid of the concept completely would be a bad idea.

I mean, van helsing could be quantified more as a fighter than a cleric IMO.

Isn't Van Helsing's counterpart in D&D -- Van Richten, I think -- actually a cleric? Van Helsing didn't exist in a world where there are D&D clerics, so who's to say that if he had, he wouldn't have been one?

Perhaps they could make it so that anyone with Knowledge (religion) as a trained skill AND a holy symbol of the campaign's deity can 'turn' undead. (say a skill check vs the undeads hit dice as a defence, or something).

Sure. As long as they make it balanced and useful, it doesn't really matter to me how they do it.

(Well, maybe a little. I'd -- as above -- suggest the True Believer feat (or similar) over Knowledge (religion). I do think that faith should be a component of the ability, and even the most corrupt and evil bastard in the world can have 20 ranks in Knowledge (religion) and pick up a symbol of Pelor. But should he then be able to turn a vampire? How about a vampire with Knowledge (religion) and a symbol of Pelor? Does he turn himself? Can he turn other vampires?)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Seriously. I am not big on turning undead. It cheapens undead encounter IMO; its also annoying how every single ravenloft game that starts automatically has a cleric of pelor with the sun domain! The ability also makes little sense, especailly when you are playing a homebrew which has no deities.

Am I the only one who hopes turn undead is out of 4e?

wasn´t there something about ravenloft that disconnected clerics and paladins from their gods...?

And to the topic: turning undead should be in, but without a stupid subsystem. Something like a circle of protection vs undead would be kind of nice!