Turn Undead should be removed!

[DamnedChoir]

I have no problem with Turn Undead as it is, however to be more thematic and just plain cool I think it should have some caveats.

Firstly it's mostly ONLY Iconic to rebuke Vampires with crosses in movies, fantasy, and horror. Almost any other kind of undead you'll ever see doesn't seem susceptible to that. But hey, I am willing to make the conceit that as a game mechanic it works.

But you know what's even MORE iconic and isn't included in the turning mechanics? Outsiders, Demons, Shadow Elementals, pure evil beings from beyond, and Aberrations.

Honestly anything that's just not /right/ or doesn't belong on this plane should realistically be able to be held at bay at least, and not just by an Abjurer, but a cleric as well. Exorcisms, wards against demons, holding off the unnatural aberrations with the Elder Sign? This is all very, very thematic and for some reason not included.

(I'd really love to be able to tell Aberrations to stay the hell away from me with those tentacles.)

Other than vampires, how many examples can one find of undead being 'turned' by those with faith? And then compare that to demons and similar creatures.

The Balrog of Morgoth was not undead.

 

[Incenjucar]

I don't see why this can't be Protection from Extra-Planar Entities 10' Radius+Radiant Aura, with the understanding that Undead are Extra-Planar due to Necrotic Energy.

 

[Cake Mage]

I hope its in, but I hope its changed (nerfed). I hope also that its an option to pick up in the cleric class as opposed to somehting all clerics get.

Of course if this were to happen, the cleric would need to have some pretty powerful choices.

 

[Greg K]

I like Turn Undead thematically, but my problem with it (as Doug mentioned) is that encounters vs. Undead with and without a Cleric are wildly different. Such that if a Zombie Swarm were normally a Level 2 encounter, they're probably Level 3 or 4 if you don't have a Cleric. .

Well, in Third Edition, undead were not designed assuming the party had a cleric. According to Sean Reynolds, "The CR system regarding undead doesn't take into account turning. The CR of an undead is based on how much of a challenge it is if there is no turning available; the effect is that parties without a cleric can handle undead encounters (you don't need a cleric), but if you do have a cleric it makes these encounters a lot easier."

 

[Darrin Drader]

I know certain game designers who just houseruled all turning into damage. I tinkered with it for a while, tying the ability to turn to whether or not their deity held power in a given location. It was kind of fun because the cleric never knew if it was going to work or not. It was a cool roleplaying idea but you can look elsewhere if you want game balance.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

i want turning, love the feel of it and the spiritual assumption. Could live and like it reworked and enlarged as a general exorcism, maybe.... but I want my future first character, the naive and good novice priest, to use his faith against the not-dying, it's just too cool and classic.

 

[moritheil]

If turning is removed, I hope they add another universal mechanic for customizable abilities usable X times per day.

 

[Grazzt]

Am I the only one who hopes turn undead is out of 4e?

I dont think it should be removed. Reworked yes (the mechanics were just not "d20" in 3.x). Also- not all clerics should get it. Make it like 2e where clerics/priests of certain deities got the power (one of the few things the 2e got right IMHO).

 

[Crashy75]

I'd rather a 'divine power' mechanic that had a functinal use in most situations (healing?) that allowed a feat or something for turning undead.
EDIT: Or just a true believer feat as was mentioned.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Well, in Third Edition, undead were not designed assuming the party had a cleric. According to Sean Reynolds, "The CR system regarding undead doesn't take into account turning. The CR of an undead is based on how much of a challenge it is if there is no turning available; the effect is that parties without a cleric can handle undead encounters (you don't need a cleric), but if you do have a cleric it makes these encounters a lot easier."

Exactly my point. Whether they're Level 2 (Level 4 without Cleric) or Level 4 (Level 2 with Cleric) makes no difference. What I'd like are clear guidelines as to the appropriate Level both with and without.