Turn undead ?

[Mercule]

Or here's a thought: cleric's turning channel's positive energy, right?

Let's hope that is ditched in 4E. The cleric's tie is with his/her deity, not the positive/negative energy planes.

What I'd like to see is a list of options, similar to the divine feats but balanced against one another, for clerics to choose from. That, or make it the equivalent of a domain power. I never liked the idea that all clerics could turn.

This, like barbarian rage, is one of the few abilities I can see an argument for the per encounter mechanism. An appropriate priest can cow undead for level/4+1 rounds per encounter.

 

[Grazzt]

I hate undead running away. It's a headache for the PCs and the DM alike.

That's the most basic part of Turn Undead, and it needs to go.

Cheers, -- N

Change it so they're held at bay, perhaps? Can't enter an area (say 10 feet) and centered on the cleric (thats more of the vampire movie thing...hold it at bay whilst you back away/retreat or something). If attacked, the turning effect is broken (no monster is gonna stand there and not fight back whilst the PCs beat the living/unliving crap out of it)

Although- I agree with several other posters. Turn undead should be a damage-dealing mechanic and I don't think all clerics should have it. Necromantic priests perhaps, healing priests sure. Priests of the Goddess of Roses and Tulips? Not likely...unless she's all about blasting the undead that trample the flower gardens on their way to killing the occupants of the house or home where the garden lies.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

It would make sense to give undead a subtype. A cleric can turn against one of those subtypes (and only that subtype) and deal damage.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

My group just has Turn Undead do damage.

 

[GodOfCheese]

Really, is turning undead based on anything other than Dracula and other vampire novels? So aside from vampires, I don't see the need for the ability. As Monte Cook wrote a while back, it's an on-off switch for the encounter. It's either nasty or easy. Time to get rid of it.

I hadn't thought about this, but I totally agree.

As a DM, I sometimes catch myself adding undead to an encounter that only vaguely supports it just to give the clerics something to shoot at. And then, if I want undead to be a genuine challenge, I have to dig out the uberundead like Nightwalkers and Greater Mummies, which don't end up being challenges equal to their CR solely because a cleric is present. Not right.

 

[GodOfCheese]

Yes. I think a cleric should be able to pick out 1 undead creature and if the cleric is more powerful (i.e. has more levels) than the undead he can halt it. No dice. Just pointing at the undead with a holy symbol and saying "halt" should suffice.

Make it like a limited version of Sanctuary: the undead may not attack you or approach you (literally, he must stay within the same radius) without succeeding at a Will save opposed by the cleric's. The undead can now attack other partymembers.

But why not put Outsiders of opposed alignment in the same boat?

Why not put Elementals and Fey in that boat for Druids?

 

[TwinBahamut]

I favor keeping the concept of channeling energy to do things like turn undead, and expanding the concept out to encompass a far greater number abilities (probably granted by domain). Create a simple mechanic to unify it all, add optional complexities, and replace the whole idea of clerics casting spells. Instead of spells, clerics would just channel the power of their diety directly.

Of course, all the current mechanics of turning checks, and even turning undead, need to go. It would be better if it worked as a debuff vs. undead or a boost to the party's ability to fight undead, rather than a wierd undead-only fear/death effect.

 

[GodOfCheese]

Change it so they're held at bay, perhaps? Can't enter an area (say 10 feet) and centered on the cleric (thats more of the vampire movie thing...hold it at bay whilst you back away/retreat or something).

Maybe the turning check determines how far away they have to get/stay? Every round after the turning, on the Cleric's initiative, affected undead take 1d8 points of damage per 5' square they are inside that radius? Mindless undead automatically retreat to that distance (or die trying). Smart undead have the option of advancing to attack you if they can withstand the damage.

Turn resistance becomes more akin to damage reduction (your turning check is N levels lower to this undead...).

 

[DreamChaser]

I like the 20th level class ability of Dread Necromancers (who "turn undead" in a mechanically sound manner).

Cheers, -- N

Which ability is that? DNs get lich transformation at 20th level. Rebuke undead (the standard way) at a much lower level and an enhanced ability to create / command their own undead at 18th or so.

I went looking and couldn't find this mechanically sound system (which I would honestly love to find cause I hate pretty much every option currently available.

DC