Tweaking spellcasters - feedback please

pseudodragon

First Post
I'm putting together a new 3.5 campaign and am trying to address some of the inequities I see in the way magic is handled. Specifically, I am trying to fix the following:

* Clerics as walking first aid kits with no individuality.
* Spellcasters needing to take a separate feat for every little spell alteration they might want to do.
* Having a Summon Familiar ability when the character doesn't want a familiar in the first place.
* Instant knowledge of new spells just from gaining an experience level.
* Generic availability of spells.
* The ease of extradimensional travel to where a 1st level wizard with the right spell can easily circumvent a mundane barrier.

I know some of the ideas I am using have been brought up before, but I'd like some opinions on how my changes as a whole will work for an entire campaign setting. Please let me know what you think or how you might do things differently. Thank you!

Magic
Magic exclusions – No instant transport magic (dimension door, teleport, blink), no remote viewing or scrying. (Certain creatures may retain instant transport movement if it is integral to their natures (ex. blink dog, boggle, etc.) )

Low magic. Most spells must be learned from those who already know them (sorcerors, wizards, magical beasts) or researched. Highest level (7th – 9th) spells are particularly rare and limited to ancient tomes. Magic items tend to be very uncommon and are more unique, with individual histories and minor powers. Magic is prized in some places, reviled in others. Spells and specializations tend to be regionalized and are reflected in the local cultures (desert cultures tend to specialize in fire magics, coastal cultures in water magic, etc.) Ritual magic and incantations are invoked in some cultures. Planar magic is extremely limited and dangerous.

Clerics no longer automatically receive the ability to spontaneously cast cure/inflict wounds spells nor druids summon nature’s ally spells, although they can spend a feat slot to gain one of these abilities. To do so, the character must have healing (for spontaneous cure/inflict) or animal, plant, elemental, and/or faerie (for nature’s ally) as one of his chosen domains. A summoning list may be limited to creatures of the appropriate domain type(s). To make up for this change, a cleric or druid begins with a bonus feat slot.

Arcane spellcasters receive the Spell Thematics feat for free at 1st level and must define some distinctive common sensory feature for their spells.

Rather than taking specific item creation feats at various levels, a spellcaster (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or druid, but not a bard, paladin, or ranger) begins with the new feat Magical Artisan (see New Feats below).

Sorcerers and wizards do not automatically gain the Summon Familiar feat at 1st level. Instead, a sorcerer receives the Spontaneous Metamage feat, while a wizard gains the Metamage feat (see New Feats below for a description of these feats.) A sorcerer or wizard can spend a feat slot at any time for the Summon Familiar ability if he so chooses.

Arcane spellcasters do not automatically learn new spells as they gain levels. They must seek out teachers (other spellcasters, monsters) or research the spells (ancient tomes, libraries, sages, independent research) they wish to learn.

Clerics and druids will automatically gain access to any spells in their chosen domains as they gain levels. Spells of levels 1-6 within other domains controlled by their deity will automatically be granted if prayed for. Spells of levels 7-9 in other domains controlled by their deity and spells of levels 1-6 in domains outside of their deity’s control must be petitioned for. A cleric will not be granted a spell of level 7-9 that is outside of his deity’s control, such spells are reserved for the most devout followers of the deities who control those domains. To petition for a spell, the character must make a successful roll of DC: 10 + spell level – the character’s wisdom adjustment. For example, if a cleric of Boccob with a wisdom modifier of +4 asks for a cure serious wounds spell (3rd level spell, non-domain), he would have to roll 10 + 3 - 4 = 9 or higher to be granted that spell on that day. If not, he would need to select another spell (and possibly petition for it, too). Additional, situational modifiers may be applied at the DM’s discretion based on the PC’s adherence to the cause (or lack thereof), offerings to entice the deity to respond favorably, etc.

New Feats
Magical Artisan: This feat grants the Scribe Scroll feat and allows the spellcaster to add a new item creation feat at every odd level, provided he meets the minimum level requirement for the item creation feat in question. For example, at 3rd level, the wizard could add either Brew Potion or Craft Wondrous Item as a bonus feat. Additional item creation feats may still be acquired with the expenditure of a feat slot.

Metamage: This feat allows a spellcaster to customize his spells by combining any of the various Metamagic Feats (hereafter referred to as Metamagic Enhancements). The spell must be memorized or prayed for at the adjusted level and cannot be changed once selected (see the list of Metamagic Reductions below to determine how additional spell levels can be offset by lessening characteristics of spells in other areas.)

Spontaneous Metamage: (Prerequisite feat: Metamage) A wizard, priest, or druid can spontaneously alter a previously memorized spell with metamagic enhancements and reductions at the time of casting. He cannot, however, alter the spell slot used. As with bards and sorcerors, who already have this ability, doing so causes the casting time to become a full round action.

Strengthen Spell: (New metamagic enhancement or feat if not using enhancements/reductions) Effect dice for a given spell are increased one step (1 to 1d4, 1d4 to 1d6, 1d6 to 1d8, etc). If taken as a feat, Strengthen Spell adds 1 to the spell level.



Metamagic Reductions: These function as negative versions of existing metamagic feats to enable spellcasters to reduce the effectiveness of spells. The level adjustments granted by these metamagic reductions can be used to offset additional spell levels of metamagic feats, but do not result in a reduction of the base spell level even if he net balance is negative. For example, if a wizard wants to cast an enlarged fireball (double range, +1 level to spell) and is willing to apply two levels of the narrow spell metamagic reduction because he’s only targeting a small area (5’ radius instead of 20’ radius, -2 levels) for a net adjustment of –1 level to the spell, he still memorizes the spell as a 3rd level spell, not a second level spell.

Diminish Spell (Empower Spell): Spell’s variable, numeric effects are halved (50%) of normal, with a minimum of 1 point per die [-1 level].
Reduce Spell (Enlarge Spell): Halve spell’s range [-1 level].
Hasten Spell (Extend Spell): Halve spell’s duration [-1 level].
Minimize Spell (Maximize Spell): Spell’s damage is 1 hit point/die [-2 levels].
Weaken Spell (Strengthen Spell, new enhancement/feat, see above): Spell’s die of effect or damage is reduced by 1 die type (d12-d10, d10-d8, d8-d6, d6-d4, d4-1 point/die) [-1 level].
Narrow Spell (Widen Spell): Spell’s area is halved [-1 level].
(Heighten Spell, Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, and Still Spell do not have any Metamagic Reduction counterparts.)
 

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I like the feel you're going for. I've run with similar modifications, as I prefer low-magic, low-power settings myself. I don't have many specific comments, but I can say I've encountered some balance issues when tinkering with casting classes. IME, the net effect of modifications like these is to reduce the casters' power and/or flexibility. If that's the point, cool - just be sure the players are fine with that ;)

One thing to be wary of: limiting arcane casters' ability to automatically gain spells when they level can be a big disadvantage to them, depending upon how XP are dished out. This can temporarily make them a little out of whack compared to other classes: if the GM allows levelling while the party is on an adventure, these limitations mean arcane casters won't get their spells (because they are far from their mentor/lab/library/whatever) when divine casters will get their spells, and other classes get their special abilities. On the other hand, if the GM simply tells the party when they can level, this issue is easy enough to avoid. Either way, this may or may not be a problem for you; it might even be your goal! But it is something I've run into when I've tried similar caster modifications, so the players need to be aware of the implications.

Also, for the high level spells you want to strictly control: in addition to making them difficult to discover as you've mentioned, you might consider simply making them rituals (or like SRD "incantations") that must be performed over many minutes or hours, rather than ordinary spells that take a spell slot and pop off in a second or two.
 

Thanks for the feedback

Hey Orc,

Thank you for your input. I agree that the leveling up issue for arcane casters could be a sticky wicket, but I want the players to think about their wizard or sorceror and not just pull a spell out of the hat, because it seems like a good idea at that moment. They should have some idea of how they want their character to develop and if there are certain spells that they think they would like at the next level, then they should roleplay to indicate that they are perusing tomes, speaking with other mages, or accumulating bits of arcane research. Then, when they actually achieve the next level, they will be completely justified in saying "I think I should have learned this [fill in title] spell now." On the other hand, if they haven't given it any thought or pick a spell that is totally alien to anything they've experienced or investigated before, I will feel jusified in telling them that they may have to seek out a tutor or spend some time and gold pieces on learning more about this new form of magic they seek. In the meantime, they can always memorize a lower slot spell or modify a spell they know with a metamagic feat to make it the equivalent of the new spell level.

I must admit that my motives are somewhat selfish in this regard. The player's focus on spell choice (and his need to at least hint at what it might be) will enable me to mine the situation for plot hooks and might possibly affect the contents of discovered hoards or the composition of encountered NPCs. The trick, of course, is not to let the player know that his character's needs are being used as leverage by the DM.
 

That's a interesting system, and it definitely makes sense. I haven't found a way to fix the cleric problem in my campaign yet (we're not using a spell slot system, so I can't use that idea). Hmmm, maybe a way to fix the healing problem would be to give clerics a static set set of extra spell slots (or set aside specific ones they already have) which would only be for healing, so that you wouldn't have the other players begging them to prepare more healing spells for them?

Personally, I think the way spellcasters are set up right now (especially wizards and psions) it is way too easy to to do some extremely game altering spells, but if you make the spells harder to get you have to be careful about them lagging behind the other classes at higher levels. Oh, and if you're eliminating instant transport magic to prevent players from bypassing barriers and so on, you probably want to ban certain spells like 'Shapechange' as well (I've removed that spell from my campaign). After all, if blink dogs exist they could just shapechange into one, or just turn into some ethereal creature and walk through walls and so on. Or you could follow orc's suggestion and make dimensional spells and the super powerful ones like shapechange and teleport into incantations. Hmmm, I'm tempted to find a way to fit that into my campaign now.

Here's an idea (based on what you said in your last post), you could have spells which are similar to ones the character already knows be available automatically as they level up, but if they try to get a new one which is totally new then come up with some special requirements to get it. You could even come up with themed spell lists like the mantles for the ardent class, let the caster pick 2 or 3 of them, say he can learn those spells automatically and he would have to go for tutoring or on a special quest if he wants anything else.

Yea, I'm a big fan of themed casters, I don't like the 'jack of all trades' wizards that dnd has, lol.
 

Shapechange

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not worried too much about the Shapechange spell, because it is a very high level spell. Those upper tier spells should be dramatic and potentially adventure changing (and the NPCs can certainly use them, too). I'm more concerned with players running their characters like suicide squads, knowing they can have the cleric recharge them on the fly or have the wizard pop them out of harm's way if they get in over their heads. I want the players to think about tactics and attrition and not just trust that there will be a magic band-aid to erase all their poor decisions. When they charge into a fight I want them to worry that they might not survive if they take it lightly. I want to get the adrenaline flowing and see their breathing quicken. Play the characters, not the magic items and spells.

For example, I am currently in a campaign where our main source of healing is a swashbuckler with a belt of healing. We have a druid who has a staff of curing, too, but she misses as many games as she makes. Also, the two nonspellcasters in the party have the capability to dimension door or teleport, so getting into or out of any area not specifically warded against extradimensional movement is pretty much a snap.

Having too much of these good things upstages the characters themselves. Why bother trying to disarm the nefarious trap from hell when you can simply bypass it magically? Why worry about a cleric in the party when you can easily come up with a magic item or two to take his place as a healer? Why interact with NPCs outside of a dungeon if your character can get whatever he wants with a prayer or another level? Players get sloppy, characters lose their individuality, and the adventure loses its edge and (for some of us) its enjoyment. I don't want to dictate to the players how to run their characters, but I do want the characters, not their arsenal of gadgets, to be the stars of the show.
 

Ahh, I see, I guess I misunderstood your reasons for making those changes. Hmmm.

I guess the simplest thing to do would be to find some kind of system where if your players are running like suicide squads that it somehow costs them something, so that more careful playing is rewarded. For example, I'm having a similar problem where only one character with any healing ability and the party is starting to rely on her. She's a very weak healer, but they're turning her into a healing battery and using up all of her power points rather quickly when she would rather be fighting.

I'm thinking my temporary solution for the healing issue is going to be gold based by making healing potions more available (and better at healing than she is)...but the thing is in my campaign magic items are very rare, so if they spend all their money on potions they won't be able to use the money to craft items. I guess I'll also make it so that things like 'belts of healing' don't exist so they can't just rely on those. So, if they're more careful, they'll get better gear in the long run and hopefully the players will get to stick to the roles that they wanted in the first place.

I guess how well that works will depend on how you hand money out to your players though, lol. Plus, if you have very good healer in the party (aka, cleric) then it wouldn't work as well. Healing in my campaign has been greatly weakened because there aren't any clerics, lol.
 

Hehe, I fully understand you! It sounds like your reasoning behind tinkering with the spellcasting classes is very similar to mine. I very much like the idea of restricting spell research to natural "families" of spells, and allowing "unrelated" spells to be gained only by studying magical writings (scrolls and spellbooks) or talking to other casters. As well, using the PCs' quest for knowledge as a source for plot hooks is wise, IMO, and can greatly personalize the campaign if the players are on board.

I had missed that you are effectively giving PCs access to all metamagics, which is a nice way to offset most hassels that might come with delayed spell selection - so I think my initials worries were probably unfounded.

One question about your Metamage feat: how will you handle cases which require a specific metamagic feat, or a certain number of metamagic feats, as a prerequisite? (For example, the Loremaster PrC requires "any 3 metamagic or item creation feats")
 

I like the feel you're going for. I've run with similar modifications, as I prefer low-magic, low-power settings myself. I don't have many specific comments, but I can say I've encountered some balance issues when tinkering with casting classes. IME, the net effect of modifications like these is to reduce the casters' power and/or flexibility. If that's the point, cool - just be sure the players are fine with that ;)

One thing to be wary of: limiting arcane casters' ability to automatically gain spells when they level can be a big disadvantage to them, depending upon how XP are dished out. This can temporarily make them a little out of whack compared to other classes: if the GM allows levelling while the party is on an adventure, these limitations mean arcane casters won't get their spells (because they are far from their mentor/lab/library/whatever) when divine casters will get their spells, and other classes get their special abilities. On the other hand, if the GM simply tells the party when they can level, this issue is easy enough to avoid. Either way, this may or may not be a problem for you; it might even be your goal! But it is something I've run into when I've tried similar caster modifications, so the players need to be aware of the implications.

Also, for the high level spells you want to strictly control: in addition to making them difficult to discover as you've mentioned, you might consider simply making them rituals (or like SRD "incantations") that must be performed over many minutes or hours, rather than ordinary spells that take a spell slot and pop off in a second or two.

As someone who is currently running a wizard character, I too found the thought of leveling up and gaining more spells while out trekking through the plains a little odd. And then I realized that perhaps my character already had some of these higher level spells already in his spellbook, perhaps as a gift from his mentor, and had finally studied them enough to understand the more complex formula required to cast them. I tried very hard to pick spells that were similarly themed or related to the way my character likes to use his magic.
 


Answers and updates

@the_orc_within - You bring up good points about the metamagic feats. I would probably worry more about it if my players were more inclined to play spellcasters. I will tackle those issues as they come up. I'm not too worried about other feats, because I think the number of feats a character can have based on his level already limits the abuse of stockpiling feats. As for prestige classes like the Loremaster, I will handle those on a case-by-case basis, since I don't anticipate it will come up often, if at all. I would probably add another requirement for the PrC, but I'm not sure what it would be (i.e. a level in the bard class, knowledge of a certain lore-based spell, etc).

@Angrydad - I applaud you for trying to keep some theme to your spellcaster's spell choices. I think it helps to define a character and shows maturity on the part of the player rather than just grabbing the "big guns" spells. Your justification for higher level spells is an intriguing one, but what would your DM do if a rogue stole your spellbook? How would he determine what spells might already be in there? Nevertheless, it's a good rationalization.

@Michaelk - You are right. At higher levels, spell selection could entail a lot of dice rolling, but that should motivate the player to take at least some of his spells from his chosen domains or other domains in his deities portfolio. At low to mid levels I don't see it as much of a problem. If a player has a particular group of spells outside of his chosen domains that he regularly likes to pray for, he may want to spend a feat to add another chosen domain or favored domain in order to ensure himself more of those spells on a regular basis. I won't know how much of a problem it will be until we try it out. If it does turn into a bureaucratic pain, I may alter the house rule somewhat to allow the character to pray for and automatically receive his wisdom bonus in non-domain spells. In an extreme case, I could allow the wisdom bonus in non-domain spells for each spell level, but I doubt it would come to that.

Thank you all for your thoughts. I certainly appreciate how it makes me think more objectively about my plans. Keep 'em coming!

Gary
 

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