D&D 3E/3.5 Tweaking the assassin [3.5E]

[Graf]

I think the class is more powerful than the assassin in the DMG.

I looks to me like you've given up a death attack power and some spellcasting in exchange for

1. Improved bab
2. The new death attack ability which is weaker but has a much shorter load time. You could probably use this power more than once an encounter unlike the original death attack. Its also useful against creatures with higher fort saves.
3. Spell-like abilities (invisibility, chameleon)
4. Shadow dancer powers
5. Immunity to poison

I would either drop the bab to cleric/rog improvment (unless the assassin alread, or lower the rate of aquisition of Shadow dancer powers and ditch invis.
As I understand it with hide in plain sight and a good hide check you basically can get out of sight in a standard action. So you can have disappearing ninja without giving them magic powers. Instead of invis 1/day you might want to give hide in plain sight once/day or something.

Why immune to poison?

 

[hong]

I think the class is more powerful than the assassin in the DMG.

I looks to me like you've given up a death attack power and some spellcasting in exchange for

1. Improved bab

I don't see anything wrong with +3 to attack over 10 levels, compared to the regular assassin.

2. The new death attack ability which is weaker but has a much shorter load time. You could probably use this power more than once an encounter unlike the original death attack. Its also useful against creatures with higher fort saves.

Sure, if you want to spend a full round studying the target each time; and you can go invisible/hidden after each attack. If you can do the latter, you might as well just keep sneak attacking each round and forego the enhanced bit.

3. Spell-like abilities (invisibility, chameleon)

That's nothing major compared to what the regular assassin could do with spells. Especially now that 3.5E has moved them over to the sorc way of spellcasting.

I would either drop the bab to cleric/rog improvment (unless the assassin alread, or lower the rate of aquisition of Shadow dancer powers and ditch invis.

Eh.

As I understand it with hide in plain sight and a good hide check you basically can get out of sight in a standard action. So you can have disappearing ninja without giving them magic powers. Instead of invis 1/day you might want to give hide in plain sight once/day or something.

Once per day? That's pretty weak.

Why immune to poison?

Because the regular assassin already gets a bonus against poison, and the ninja spy from OA gets poison immunity. I might drop the +2 bonus at 2nd level.

 

[hong]

Revised "shadow stalker":


REQUIREMENTS

Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Skills: Disguise 8 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 4 ranks.
Other: Sneak attack or ranged sneak attack class ability.


CLASS STATISTICS

Hit Die: d6.
Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points/Level: 4 + Int modifier.

BAB: as fighter (lvl x1)
Saves: good Fort
Specials:
1 Sneak attack +1d6, enhanced sneak attack +2d6
2 Safe poison use, uncanny dodge
3 Sneak attack +2d6, hide in plain sight
4 Shadow jump (20 ft), chameleon
5 Sneak attack +3d6, enhanced sneak attack +4d6
6 Shadow jump (40 ft), improved uncanny dodge
7 Sneak attack +4d6, darkvision
8 Shadow jump (80 ft), poison resistance
9 Sneak attack +5d6, invisibility 3/day
10 Shadow jump (160 ft), enhanced sneak attack +6d6


SPECIAL ABILITIES

All the following are special abilities of the shadow stalker.

Weapon and armour proficiency: The shadow stalker gains proficiency with the crossbow (hand, light, or heavy), dagger (any type), dart, rapier, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), and short sword. He is proficient with light armour but not with shields.

Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage is +1d6 at 1st level, and +1d6 for every two levels after that. If the shadow stalker gets sneak attack damage from another source (such as rogue levels), the bonuses to damage stack.

Enhanced Sneak Attack (Ex): If the shadow stalker studies his victim for one round and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon, he does an extra +2d6 points of damage if he hits. This extra damage (over and above his normal sneak attack damage) applies only to the first sneak attack he makes after studying the target, and the attack must be made within 3 rounds or the benefit is lost.

Studying the victim is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. While the shadow stalker is studying his victim, he takes a –4 penalty to AC for that round. The target must be unable to detect the shadow stalker, or fail to recognise the shadow stalker as an enemy.

At 5th level, the extra damage the shadow stalker inflicts after studying his victim increases to +4d6. At 10th level, it increases to +6d6.

Poison Use (Ex): At 2nd level, the shadow stalker can use poison without any risk of poisoning himself.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, the shadow stalker gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to even be aware of it. he retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilised.)

If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class (such as a barbarian/rogue), the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 3rd level, the shadow stalker can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, the shadow stalker can hide himself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

Chameleon (Su): At 4th level, the shadow stalker gains the supernatural ability to change his appearance at will, as if via the spell change self.
Shadow Jump (Su): At 4th level, the shadow stalker gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some shadow. The shadow stalker can jump up to a total of 20 feet each day in this way. The distance an shadow stalker can jump each day doubles every two levels higher than 4th (40 feet at 6th level, 80 feet at 8th, and 160 feet at 10th). He can split this among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment. (An 8th level shadow stalker who jumps 75 feet cannot jump again until the next day.)

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level, the shadow stalker can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the shadow stalker. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the shadow stalker can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).

If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class (such as a barbarian/rogue), the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Darkvision (Ex): At 7th level, the shadow stalker gains darkvision to a range of 60 feet.

Poison Resistance (Ex): At 8th level, the shadow stalker gains a +5 bonus to saving throws against poison.

Invisibility (Sp): At 9th level, the shadow stalker can fade from view exactly as if via the spell invisibility. He can do this up to 3 times per day.

 

[Graf]

I don't see anything wrong with +3 to attack over 10 levels, compared to the regular assassin.

Don't follow the logic paritcularly. A high bab is quite a coveted thing especially with lots of other useful powers.
In addition to giving other powers you've also upped their bab, making them the only class with a sneak attack progression which also gets "best bab". It's not just +3 additional points of bab (as if that were a bad thing) they get bab earlier.

If you think its not a big deal you should be comfortable dropping it. If you want to stay balanced against the core you either need to start dropping a lot of other powers or the bab.

Sure, if you want to spend a full round studying the target each time; and you can go invisible/hidden after each attack. If you can do the latter, you might as well just keep sneak attacking each round and forego the enhanced bit.

It would depend on the situation.
The lower load time is a very nice feature. With 3 round (and a low fort DC) on the original power it wasn't going to turn up very frequently, probably once every few sessions. The power as it is now could be used a lot more frequently. I'm not sure it's significantly worse (especially if the character doesn't have sneak attack from another source). Especially since you can do other stuff at the same time (at least according to the DMG).
Surprise round: Assassin coats blade with poison and studies foe.
Regular round: Assassin hits with extra damage.

Surprise round: Assassin turns invisible. Studies foe.
Regular round: Hits does extra damage.

For that matter the death attack damage isn't lost if the target isn't flanked. So it's basically like a full proof feint.

Rogue:
Sitch a
Round 1: Tries to get out of sight to sneak attack. Is noticed.
Round 2: Either hides again or just attacks

Sitch b
Round 1: Tries to fient for sneak attack damage. Fails.
Round 2: Can try to fient or just attack with much lower damage.

Assassin
Sitch a
Round 1: Tries to get out of sight to sneak attack and studies foe. Is noticed.
Round 2: Can choose to attack with death attack anyway, doe

sitch b
Round 1: Tries to fient for sneak attack damage while studying foe. Fails fient.
Round 2: Can still attack with extra damage.

An unresistable fient, especially since you're regular sneak attack progression is unchanged and you have full rogue sneak attack damage availible as an additional option, is a nice power.

I still like it btw, but I think its probably just as good as the old death power as it's written now.

That's nothing major compared to what the regular assassin could do with spells. Especially now that 3.5E has moved them over to the sorc way of spellcasting.

You're right. Invis and chameleon aren't a bit deal at those levels.
I do want to mention that the assassin spells require concentration checks (not a class skill), are aquired slowly and subject to armor penalty checks.
The new supernatural powers aren't subject to concentration checks or arcane spell fauilture.

Once per day? That's pretty weak.

You had invisibility 1/day in that slot before. So it fit what you were doing but got rid of a supernatural power.

Personally I would stage in the poison resistence.

Adding Shadowjump 160, darkvision and keeping invis, chameolon, good bab and moving down hide in plain sight still makes for a class that's better than the DMG.
I would drop bab and keep the rest of it or else drop darkvision (why should the class grant a racial ability? it's not even on the classes spell list), and slow the progression of some other power (shadow jump or give HiPS later or ditch invis).

[edit=badly worded sentence up front nuked.]

 

[hong]

Don't follow the logic paritcularly. A high bab is quite a coveted thing especially with lots of other useful powers.
In addition to giving other powers you've also upped their bab, making them the only class with a sneak attack progression which also gets "best bab". It's not just +3 additional points of bab (as if that were a bad thing) they get bab earlier.

If you think its not a big deal you should be comfortable dropping it. If you want to stay balanced against the core you either need to start dropping a lot of other powers or the bab.

You guys need to get over this cult of the BAB.

Surprise round: Assassin coats blade with poison and studies foe.

Studying is a full-round action.

Personally I would stage in the poison resistence.

Adding Shadowjump 160, darkvision and keeping invis, chameolon, good bab and moving down hide in plain sight still makes for a class that's better than the DMG.

Eh.

I would drop bab and keep the rest of it or else drop darkvision (why should the class grant a racial ability? it's not even on the classes spell list),

It's a ninja thing.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Don't follow the logic paritcularly. A high bab is quite a coveted thing especially with lots of other useful powers.
In addition to giving other powers you've also upped their bab, making them the only class with a sneak attack progression which also gets "best bab". It's not just +3 additional points of bab (as if that were a bad thing) they get bab earlier.

I tend to agree with Graf. This assassin class is decidedly more powerful, and the BAB is over the top. I think that your death attack replacement is more powerful, since the DA save DCs aren't all that good in my experience.

 

[hong]

I tend to agree with Graf. This assassin class is decidedly more powerful, and the BAB is over the top. I think that your death attack replacement is more powerful, since the DA save DCs aren't all that good in my experience.

Now see, I don't mind that at all. The assassin/"shadow stalker" is about having lots of offensive power, and not much defense: a glass jaw, like I said right at the start. So a powerful knockout punch is okay. However, the class also shouldn't be able to handle a stand-up fight against most other classes. In line with this, most of the other abilities are to do with running away or hiding, and I don't see that they're really that great compared what the regular assassin gets. No greater invis, alter self, nondetection, dimension door, or freedom of movement, for example.

 

[Graf]

forgetaboutit

 

[hong]

Now up on the web page:

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/shadow_stalker.htm

I've toned down the offense slightly and boosted the skill points, because if you don't have spells, you need a heck of a lot of skills to be a competent ninja.