evilbob
Adventurer
This question is going to take a while to set up, but I promise I'm going somewhere...
Given: a centaur character with the feats TWF and Improved TWF (a mid-level centaur ranger, for example). For simplicity in math, let's say the centaur's BAB is 10/5 and her Str bonus is 5 (total melee: 15/10). Let's also say for simplicity she's holding two non-magical, non-masterwork weapons, and that her offhand weapon is light.
A centaur has two hoof attacks that are considered natural weapons. It is my understanding that a creature with natural weapons that are not superceded by manufactured weapons (for example, claws are superceded by swords because you use your hands to hold the swords) can make attacks with those natural weapons as a part of their full attack action, using "BAB - 5" (or "BAB - 2" for those with multiattack) for those natural weapon attacks. These natural weapons go at the end of your full attack sequence.
This means that this centaur character can attack with one weapon as follows: 2 hoves at +15/+15 OR 2 weapon attacks at +15/+10 OR two weapon attacks and two hooves at +15/+10/+10/+10. If you disagree with me thus far, you should probably go ahead and stop reading and make your post.
(But before you do, please read the MM's entry on a Troll Hunter, which I think makes it fairly clear how this works.)
Now, when you add TWF into the mix, things get complicated. My main question is: does TWF subtract from the hoof attacks as well as all main-hand and off-hand attacks, or are the centaur's natural weapons not part of Two Weapon Fighting? My belief is that TWF does not affect the centaur's hooves, meaning her strongest full attack would be: +13/+13/+8/+8/+10/+10. This sequence is main hand, off hand, main hand, off hand, hoof, hoof - where the main and off hands take -2 and the hooves do not. The alternative is +13/+13/+8/+8/+8/+8, which gives the -2 penalty for TWF to her hooves as well.
I don't believe penalties for TWF should apply to her natural attacks, since it is two WEAPON fighting, after all. And nothing in the TWF description says anything like, "all the rest of your attacks take X penalty" - it just talks about the penalties for your main hand and your off hand. That said, the PHB is so medium-humanoid-creature-centric that it can be hard to interpret its rules for odd-sized monster races. Then again, all of this SHOULD be fairly common knowledge, given that ranger is a centaur's favored class and their natural Str bonus would seem to favor the TWF style, which means this should come up a lot.
A secondary, follow-up question is: just to be sure, her strength bonus on those attacks should be: 1x, 1/2x, 1x, 1/2x, 1/2x, 1/2x, correct? (Or in this example, 5, 2, 5, 2, 2, 2.) I'm pretty certain on this one, but I figured I'd throw it out there for people to disagree with as well.
Opinions welcome.
Given: a centaur character with the feats TWF and Improved TWF (a mid-level centaur ranger, for example). For simplicity in math, let's say the centaur's BAB is 10/5 and her Str bonus is 5 (total melee: 15/10). Let's also say for simplicity she's holding two non-magical, non-masterwork weapons, and that her offhand weapon is light.
A centaur has two hoof attacks that are considered natural weapons. It is my understanding that a creature with natural weapons that are not superceded by manufactured weapons (for example, claws are superceded by swords because you use your hands to hold the swords) can make attacks with those natural weapons as a part of their full attack action, using "BAB - 5" (or "BAB - 2" for those with multiattack) for those natural weapon attacks. These natural weapons go at the end of your full attack sequence.
This means that this centaur character can attack with one weapon as follows: 2 hoves at +15/+15 OR 2 weapon attacks at +15/+10 OR two weapon attacks and two hooves at +15/+10/+10/+10. If you disagree with me thus far, you should probably go ahead and stop reading and make your post.
(But before you do, please read the MM's entry on a Troll Hunter, which I think makes it fairly clear how this works.)Now, when you add TWF into the mix, things get complicated. My main question is: does TWF subtract from the hoof attacks as well as all main-hand and off-hand attacks, or are the centaur's natural weapons not part of Two Weapon Fighting? My belief is that TWF does not affect the centaur's hooves, meaning her strongest full attack would be: +13/+13/+8/+8/+10/+10. This sequence is main hand, off hand, main hand, off hand, hoof, hoof - where the main and off hands take -2 and the hooves do not. The alternative is +13/+13/+8/+8/+8/+8, which gives the -2 penalty for TWF to her hooves as well.
I don't believe penalties for TWF should apply to her natural attacks, since it is two WEAPON fighting, after all. And nothing in the TWF description says anything like, "all the rest of your attacks take X penalty" - it just talks about the penalties for your main hand and your off hand. That said, the PHB is so medium-humanoid-creature-centric that it can be hard to interpret its rules for odd-sized monster races. Then again, all of this SHOULD be fairly common knowledge, given that ranger is a centaur's favored class and their natural Str bonus would seem to favor the TWF style, which means this should come up a lot.
A secondary, follow-up question is: just to be sure, her strength bonus on those attacks should be: 1x, 1/2x, 1x, 1/2x, 1/2x, 1/2x, correct? (Or in this example, 5, 2, 5, 2, 2, 2.) I'm pretty certain on this one, but I figured I'd throw it out there for people to disagree with as well.
Opinions welcome.
