TWF Conan d20 rules balanced?

[Darklone]

Ok... the TWF feat in Conan d20 is a weapon proficiency... if you don't have it, you suffer -6/-10 to all attacks/without light offhand weapon (but gain an additional attack with the offhand), if you have it it's a -0/-0 if one weapon is light and a -4/-4 if both weapons are onehanded.

Only one feat ITWF is needed to get as many attacks with your offhand weapon as you get with your main hand due to BAB.

This looks pretty strong to me. Even if we still keep TWF as feat, for only two feats you get twice as many attacks with full attack bonus. Any experiences or ideas how to balance that?

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yeah. Use the standard d20 rules.

That aside: That said, it sounds like their TWF rule isn't bad, but their ITWF rule is outrageous. I could play any class with the ability to deal extra damage through an ability analogous to sneak attack or weapon spec (and I'm sure there's at least one ability like this in Conan d20) and easily outpace a two-handed weapon fighter in damage output. Personally, I prefer to award an AC bonus for TWF rather than mitigate the attack penalties further, but that's just me.

In any case: I'd just go with the Conan default TWF rule, and then add on ITWF, GTWF, and Perfect TWF as normal. That should be balanced even if you think that standard d20 TWF sucks.

 

[argo]

For dnd or most other d20 games? Use the standard TWF rules.

For an actual game of Conan? The Conan TWF rules work just fine as there are counterbalances in the system. I can elaborate on that point if you care to hear it.

 

[argo]

Oh and the penalties for fighting without the feat are not -6/-10; they are -2 if one weapon is light or -6 if both weapons are one-handed (thus every character effectievly has dnd TWF for free).

 

[ruleslawyer]

What's the counterbalance, argo? Just curious...

 

[argo]

A couple of factors work together to keep twf in its place:

-just like everybody can TWF, everybody can move-attack-move which favors single big hits
-massive damage: the threshold has been lowered to 20 points and the Fort save is tough (10 + 1/2 damage)
-damage dice: they have all been bumped up; a shortsword does 1d8 but a greatsword does 2d10 (so it can threaten massive damage all by itself!)
-armor: provides DR. You may by now start to get a feeling that it is very easy to get your damage output into the 12-18 points/hit range but very very hard to get it into the 22-28 points/hit range. Shaving off just 5 or 6 points per hit can save you from having to make massive damage saves twice a round.
-armor penetration: weapons have AP ratings, high for two handed weapons, low for one handed weapons and none for most light weapons. IOW big weapons can smash armor and lower its DR, little weapons are innefective.

So, if you are facing a horde of screaming naked savages then TWF is an excellent choice, but they are also excellent cleave bait for the THF. However, if your opponent has tanked up then your TWF will find his damage output cut in half while the THF can still threaten a massive damage save or two every round. A sneak attacker may be able to get some mielage out of the more relaxed TWF rules but then he is still in the same pickle as all melee rouges; no armor, few HP, short life expectancy. With a little PA backing him up the greatsword-wielding two-hander is a true one-hit wonder.

 

[Darklone]

Oh and the penalties for fighting without the feat are not -6/-10; they are -2 if one weapon is light or -6 if both weapons are one-handed (thus every character effectievly has dnd TWF for free).

Sorry, I meant -6/-6 if both weapons are one-handed... and -10/-10 if you don't thave the TWF proficiency (I thought not all classes do give this proficiency?).

Thanks for the move-attack-move part, I missed that in the conan rules. That really nixes TWF dudes I guess.