twf + flurry -- all unarmed?

[Peter Gibbons]

Using a right knee vs. a left knee isn't what stops a monk from using TWF. The line "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed" is. Neither knee is off-hand, and therefore cannot benefit from TWF. Since a monk cannot TWF unarmed, the rest of your analysis is incorrect.

We are talking about what the FAQ says, and the FAQ says quite clearly that monk's can make off-hand unarmed strikes.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Actually, it does, because "unarmed strike" is a single weapon. It doesn't matter what particular part of your body you're using, you're still attacking with your unarmed strike.

I disagree with your premise. "Unarmed strike" is not a "single weapon."

If you can point to something that establishes it is, however, I'll gladly revise my opinion. ("An unarmed strike is a light weapon..." doesn't do it, though.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree with your premise. "Unarmed strike" is not a "single weapon."

If you can point to something that establishes it is, however, I'll gladly revise my opinion. ("An unarmed strike is a light weapon..." doesn't do it, though.)

If we cast Magic Weapon on a monk ("A monk’s unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell."), to give his unarmed strike a +1 enhancement bonus, and he then attacks with his left fist and right knee, do they both get a +1?

If we cast Greater Magic Fang on him, can we give his unarmed strike a +3 enhancement bonus (that affects both his fist and his knee), or do we need to use the +1-to-all-natural-weapons version?

-Hyp.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

If we cast Magic Weapon on a monk ("A monk’s unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell."), to give his unarmed strike a +1 enhancement bonus, and he then attacks with his left fist and right knee, do they both get a +1?

If we cast Greater Magic Fang on him, can we give his unarmed strike a +3 enhancement bonus (that affects both his fist and his knee), or do we need to use the +1-to-all-natural-weapons version?

Good point. It's not enough to convince me that a monk can TWF-and-flurry if he's holding a sai in his left hand, but not if he chooses to make an unarmed strike with his empty left hand, but it's a good point. I suppose it's inevitable that there will be great confusion whenever the rules try to address "not-a-weapon-but-treated-in-many-if-not-all-ways-as-if-it-were-a-weapon" issues.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Going through the gymnastics myself, I can see the argument that after a FoB, similiarly to, say, a normal full attack using iteritive attacks, you'd make a follow-up attack with your off-hand weapon. *shrug* Okay. They're already engaged in a FAA, so I see no balance issue.

Magic Weapon: I would argue that one fist, or the 'primary attack' if that's an issue (one primary attacking foot, etc.) would have the modifier applied. You could ALSO use the +1 everywhere version and save yourself the headache, but the single-pop version would apply so long as everyone was clear where the enhancement was placed.

I'm still on the "you can attack with an off-hand" bandwagon; if the point of the monk is to in any way recreate chop-saki martial arts action, then it doesn't make sense (logically) to disallow their use of TWF in the event that they took it. The reason I say it must be allowed is because:

Originally Posted by SRD
From the Feat: Two Weapon Fighting, If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)

So that says to me that, in fact, the penalty for STR is never assessed and the whole thing is just worded messily, but this (to me) clearly indicates that a Monk may take (and use unarmed) TWF.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The reason I say it must be allowed is because:

If monks are disallowed the use of off-hand attacks while striking unarmed, that doesn't invalidate the line you quoted from Two-Weapon Fighting.

It just means that it only applies to non-monks, since non-monks are the only people who can use off-hand attacks while striking unarmed.

-Hyp.

 

[Magesmiley]

I've always understood that monks could combine two-weapon fighting with flurry of blows when using unarmed attacks. Heck, if you have the Detach feat from Savage Species you could even combine it with Rapid Shot too

 

[Legildur]

I've always understood that monks could combine two-weapon fighting with flurry of blows when using unarmed attacks. Heck, if you have the Detach feat from Savage Species you could even combine it with Rapid Shot too

There's a further example in the FAQ where a Monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Shot gets a lot of attacks by combining it with Flurry of Blows (or Flurry of Misses as it is colloquially known in my campaigns) as long as two of the attacks are made with shuriken.

 

[Thia Halmades]

At this point I'm willing to HR it, because there's no good reason why a Monk shouldn't be able to execute all their attacks while unarmed. I see what y'all are saying, and I see what the FAQ is saying, but denying them a TWF attack because they aren't carrying "a weapon" when the premise of the class is that they ARE weapons seems silly to me.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

but denying them a TWF attack because they aren't carrying "a weapon" when the premise of the class is that they ARE weapons seems silly to me.

Well, jes' see ya don' come back 'roun' here cryin' 'bout some "crazy monk" player etin' all yer mooks. Yeh bein' warn'!