Twin strike and area attacks ignores the fighter mark?

[styker]

If i use twin strike, one attack at the fighter who marked me and another in his ally, the marks apply? Or no because i put the fighter as one target?
Same think to blasts and bursts, when the fighter is in the area and i hit the other allys the marks apply or not?

 

[Colmarr]

My understanding is:

If i use twin strike, one attack at the fighter who marked me and another in his ally, the marks apply? Or no because i put the fighter as one target?

The two targets are different attacks. Tee attack against the ally suffers the mark penalty. The attack against the fighter doesn't.

Same think to blasts and bursts, when the fighter is in the area and i hit the other allys the marks apply or not?

In this case, the enemy is only making one attack (the blast or burst). As the attack targets the fighter, none of the targets gain the benefit of the fighter's mark.

 

[Eldorian]

I have the other understanding: if you use a power that has multiple targets and one of them is the guy who marked you, then no penalty. Whether they be ranged, melee, close, or area attacks.

 

[Diirk]

Marks apply a penalty when you make an attack that doesn't include the person/creature who marked you. It's resolved per attack, not per power usage.

In the case of Twin Strike, the power tells you to make 2 different attacks, 1 with your main and 1 with your offhand (or just 2 attacks in the case of the ranged version). For each of these attacks, look at who your target is. Is the target of your first attack the person who marked you? Yes, then no penalty. Target of the 2nd attack the person who marked you? No, then you suffer the penalty.

Area Blasts/bursts are different. You make 1 attack, that targets each creature in the area. If this single attack (that may or may not hit multiple creatures) includes the person who marked you, none of them suffer the penalty.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Marks apply a penalty when you make an attack that doesn't include the person/creature who marked you. It's resolved per attack, not per power usage.

In the case of Twin Strike, the power tells you to make 2 different attacks, 1 with your main and 1 with your offhand (or just 2 attacks in the case of the ranged version). For each of these attacks, look at who your target is. Is the target of your first attack the person who marked you? Yes, then no penalty. Target of the 2nd attack the person who marked you? No, then you suffer the penalty.

Area Blasts/bursts are different. You make 1 attack, that targets each creature in the area. If this single attack (that may or may not hit multiple creatures) includes the person who marked you, none of them suffer the penalty.

This is correct. A quick rule of thumb is if you're using the same damage roll against all the targets of your power, then its one attack and if you roll to-hit AND damage separately (like Twin Strike or Icy Rays) then its multiple attacks. Ranged powers and melee powers make attacks on each target separately, close and area attacks hit every target in the AoE/zone with a single attack.

 

[sfedi]

Unfortunately we still bump our heads because attack is not well defined, and we have bad phrased powers.

My interpretation is as Eldorian's.

It works well with Elites and Solo's, limiting the Defender's capabilities against those foes.

Basically, a mark forces an enemy to target at least one of it's attacks against the defender.

 

[Obryn]

I think RAW, the Mad Arab's interpretation is correct.

I prefer to run it like the others, though - if a single attack ability has multiple targets, it fulfills the mark if at least one of those targets is the Fighter.

-O

 

[the Jester]

I have the other understanding: if you use a power that has multiple targets and one of them is the guy who marked you, then no penalty. Whether they be ranged, melee, close, or area attacks.

This is how I run it as well.

 

[keterys]

Expect significant table variation. DMs should make whatever ruling they prefer for their games.

Personally, I lean towards 'as long as the defender is one of the targets, it doesn't matter how it's done', though I wouldn't make that a RAW argument. I'd not be surprised if it were RAI, but it's way too muddied for me to, say, bet on it

 

[Eric888]

It really has to be run that way. Too many elites and solos have powers that say "make a melee basic attack against two different targets." They could have just as easily written the attack as "close burst one, target: two creatures in burst." Those two wordings should not function as differently as they do by RAW, so I just play that they don't work differently.