Two encounters at once: what would you do?

[cmbarona]

My players triggered two encounters simultaneously. Should I have run them simultaneously? Here's some elaboration:

Kobolds had tunneled through the sewers to an abandoned bank's basement. Our heroes (1st-level, 1st full dungeon in 4e for these players) had fought their way into the bank from above, not quite knowing what dangers lurked inside. There was a fight in a hallway, after which they took a short rest. Then there were two options: the vault or the office.

They decided to investigate the vault and the office simultaneously.

Maybe it was poor communication, poor planning, I dunno. But kobolds and the black dragon wyrmlings hiding in the vault all have darkvision, and the rusted hinges would have been very loud on these doors, prompting both sets of enemies to investigate and attack the intruders.

We ended the session with three of the four players down, the last one a Warlord with 10 HP and no second wind or inspiring words left. We're currently facing a TPK, unless I can pull something out of my ass to save the characters. I specifically left the Dragonborn Warlord for last, in hopes that he could surrender and parlay something, but it looks like he's going to botch that by attacking soon. His opponents are one of the wyrmlings, a kobold dragonshield, and a kobold wyrmpriest, none of whom are bloodied.

I tried to take a number of mercies on them. The wizard tried to use burning hands to weld the vault door shut, which I said would not work, though I let it deal half damage to the wyrmlings as they came through. I gave them 3 rounds before the wyrmlings showed up to the fight. The wizard tried to hide behind the decrepit wooden door of the office, but one of the wyrmlings burst in, crushing him between the shattering door and the wall. I ad-libbed d10 damage, which in retrospect might have been too high. I didn't use the wyrmling double attacks or bites, just single-claw attacks and dragon breath. I was going to keep the wyrmpriest occupied completing a ritual, but they promptly attacked him and spent precious time interrupting the ritual (a Make Whole ritual, so innocuous, but the only character who would have known that was in no position to investigate it), meaning he would naturally have retaliated. Meanwhile, the Rogue, the only Striker, has used Sneak Attack only once this encounter.

Am I being a dick, or giving the players what they deserved? How much hand holding should I do to players who are new to 4th edition? They were pretty long-time 3.5 players, so should they have known better? And am I playing the monsters against type by having them be this brutal and coordinated?

 

[Baumi]

Things like this can happen all the time and Players are often to stubborn to flee or surrender. So don't feel bad.

Anyway, since the Kobolds have the upper hand, let them start to be cocky and instead of making coordinated attacks, let them mock the Warlord and do stupid things like letting the Warlord attack first, only one Enemy per round attacks and stuff like that. With some luck and good tactics the Warlord might actually survive to tell the tale (and that would be an epic tale)!

Also the Kobolds can just take the Characters Hostage, for ransom or for lunch. Which give the Heroes another chance to escape and take revenge (a very classical Story). Also Kobolds love their traps, maybee the put them all in a Villanous Death Trap where they could NEVER escape (think James Bond, with Lasers, Sharks and Stuff).

Or maybe the Kobolds see the Value in the Heroes and they let them live if they do something for them...

Another option would be to kill them all, but play the rest of the Session in the Afterlife, where they can fight for their rebirth. Or a Necromancer ressurect them a hundred years later to become his minions or to gain knowledge of their time, but he botches his spell and the Heroes become alive.

Just think outside the typical Kill Kill Kill mentality that most Monsters seem to have. Kobolds are far to clever to let such a rare victory end so quickly.

 

[cmbarona]

Another fact worth noting: we will be joined in our next session by a new player who will replace the Wizard. I've considered allowing him to join in on the scene as it unfolds, though I'm not sure what a difference a single player could make. I've considered the capture scenario, especially since these kobolds are Tiamat fanatics and looking for new recruits, if he can prove his devotion somehow. What to have him do, though?...

And why did they have to open both doors?! I had everything planned for their success!

 

[d20Dwarf]

"What would you do if you had a million dollars?"
"I'll tell you what I'd do, man: two encounters at the same time, man."

 

[evileeyore]

My players triggered two encounters simultaneously.

In my opinion this is your first "mistake"*. It's one of control...

The sentence should read "I allowed my players to trigger two encounters simultaneously".

Everything you need to "fix"* flows from there. The second thing to consider is this: Did you want them to 'win'? At what cost?

From those answers you can better temper the flow of future combats, either massaging things so the PCs win with 'just the right amount of resources expended' or lose in 'just the right way', or whatever else.




* IMO

 

[fjw70]

If they had a chance to run and refused to do so then the resulting consequences are on them.

if you still want to give them a chance then as was suggested above let the Kobold toy with the warlord. Also having the new player come in and save the day would work too. You could have the Kobold retreat when the new PC arrives. But the PCs should get out of there ASAP when you tell them that the kobolds are easily startled but will soon be back in greater numbers.

 

[cmbarona]

In my opinion this is your first "mistake"*. It's one of control...

The sentence should read "I allowed my players to trigger two encounters simultaneously".

Everything you need to "fix"* flows from there. The second thing to consider is this: Did you want them to 'win'? At what cost?

From those answers you can better temper the flow of future combats, either massaging things so the PCs win with 'just the right amount of resources expended' or lose in 'just the right way', or whatever else.




* IMO

You're right, I allowed them to trigger them simultaneously, but how else was I supposed to address it? I don't mean that flippantly, either, I really wasn't sure what to do when they started talking about opening both doors at once. I guess I could have warned them, but that starts getting into metagamey territory, or worse, railroading.

I want them to win, of course, so they can continue exploring the plot I've created for them. But I'm trying to let them win at the cost of an honest effort, or as honest as possible. I don't think either encounter by itself would have been too difficult for them, and that's part of my frustration.

If they had a chance to run and refused to do so then the resulting consequences are on them.

if you still want to give them a chance then as was suggested above let the Kobold toy with the warlord. Also having the new player come in and save the day would work too. You could have the Kobold retreat when the new PC arrives. But the PCs should get out of there ASAP when you tell them that the kobolds are easily startled but will soon be back in greater numbers.

To clarify, it's two kobolds and a black dragon wyrmling that's left.

If the two of them can at least even the fight, perhaps then I could see an enemy (at least one or more of the kobolds) running away. So thanks, that could work.

 

[keterys]

Take 'em captive, they can meet the new player in the pens, make a daring escape from there.

 

[evileeyore]

You're right, I allowed them to trigger them simultaneously, but how else was I supposed to address it?

I don't know. From your write up it sounds like all the enemies came from the basement. I'm geussing that's not the case, but that's how you've written it.

If it was the case of "Enemies in the Office" and "Enemies in the Basement" then you could have held the Basement baddies back till the first one was completed, ie they're further back in the tunnels so it takes time for them get there after hearing the noises of conflict, or the Vault door gets stuck, or just have the office baddies jump them (Surprise!) before they open either door- they did make a bunch of noise in a hallway didn't they?


The smallest difference? I'd have let the Wizard's Burning Hands spell jam the vault door temporarily*. This would have given the PC the chance to gang up on the Office Baddies, but obviously be under a "we're about to jumped by more baddies" time constraint.


* Also would have let the PC have a Moment of Cool.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I guess I could have warned them, but that starts getting into metagamey territory, or worse, railroading.

I want them to win, of course, so they can continue exploring the plot I've created for them.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or not. That second sentence there is almost a textbook definition of railroading.