Two Hit Monsters

[Lackhand]

Actually, I think I was onto something with the level 0 monsters. So, you have level 0 monsters worth 75 xp and level -1 monsters worth 50 xp.

Example:

Lvl 0 Kobold Skirmisher, XP 75
HP 19, Bloodied 9
AC 14, F 10, R 13, W 12
Spear +5 vs AC; 1d8 dmg

Lvl -1 Kobold Skirmisher, XP 50
HP 11, Bloodied 5
AC 13, F 9, R 12, W 11
Spear +4 vs AC; 1d6 dmg

By gum... I like! The kobold skirmisher 0 would have something like 19 hp and the skirmisher -1 would have 11 hp, right?

A little high, but very tempting.

You're a genius. If only they had printed them this way -- I'm playing through Keep on the Shadowfell and the unbridled tenacity of these buggers is unpleasantly jarring.

I'd much rather have just as difficult fights with greater numbers of 'em, or with different fluff (hobgoblins instead of just gob-goblins.)

 

[Khuxan]

Actually, I think I was onto something with the level 0 monsters. So, you have level 0 monsters worth 75 xp and level -1 monsters worth 50 xp.

Example:

Lvl 0 Kobold Skirmisher, XP 75
HP 19, Bloodied 9
AC 14, F 10, R 13, W 12
Spear +5 vs AC; 1d8 dmg

Lvl -1 Kobold Skirmisher, XP 50
HP 11, Bloodied 5
AC 13, F 9, R 12, W 11
Spear +4 vs AC; 1d6 dmg

I really like this idea. Please include some monsters like this in your fantastic collection of 4E minis-based monsters.

 

[Aldarc]

Because minions aren't a one-size-fits-all solution.
Because Level 1 Adventurers are still a little special.
Because there has to be something to separate demihumans from the darkness.
Because getting your ass handed to you by 5 goblins isn't a scene I want to run: I want to run getting your ass handed to you by 15 goblins, or by 5 orcs (or few ogres!).

Because kobolds and goblins are the Evil Comic Relief for me, a role which I need something to fill: vaguely ineffectual and malicious individually, but collectively a real racial threat.

Because I want to reward players for using /encounter powers and /daily powers in situations other than boss battles.

Because I want to see what changes.

Why not?

I can return the question. Why should these monsters not be dangerous for low-level adventurers? If you want your heroes to be fighting hordes of goblins and orcs, then you should become a higher level and go back and fight them again when you are stronger.

 

[FireLance]

My preferred solution would simply be to add more hit points (4 + half Constitution + 4 * level) to a minion monster, double the xp value and remove the rule that a missed attack does not damage it. This has the added feature (if you consider it that ) of retaining fixed damage. The kobold and goblin "demi minions" would thus look as follows:

Goblin Slicer
Level 1 Demi Minion
Small natural humanoid
XP 50

Initiative +3
Senses Perception +1; low-light vision
HP 14; Bloodied 7
AC 16; Fortitude 12, Reflex 14, Will 11
Speed 6; see also goblin tactics

Short Sword (standard; at-will); * Weapon
+5 vs. AC; 4 damage (5 damage if the goblin slicer has combat advantage against the target)
Goblin Tactics (immediate reaction, when missed by a melee attack; at-will)
The goblin shifts one square.

Alignment Evil
Languages Common, Goblin
Skills Stealth +5, Thievery +5
Str 14 (+2) Dex 17 (+3) Wis 12 (+1)
Con 13 (+1) Int 8 (-1) Cha 8 (-1)

Equipment leather armor, short sword

----------

Kobold Warrior
Level 1 Demi Minion
Small natural humanoid
XP 50

Initiative +3
Senses Perception +1; darkvision
HP 14; Bloodied 7
AC 15; Fortitude 11, Reflex 13, Will 11; see also trap sense
Speed 6

Javelin (standard; at-will); * Weapon
+5 vs. AC; 4 damage
b Javelin (standard; at-will); * Weapon
Ranged 10/20; +5 vs. AC; 4 damage
Shifty (minor; at-will)
The kobold shifts one square.
Trap Sense
The kobold gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against traps.

Alignment Evil
Languages Common, Draconic
Skills Stealth +4, Thievery +4
Str 8 (-1) Dex 16 (+3) Wis 12 (+1)
Con 12 (+1) Int 9 (-1) Cha 10 (+0)

Equipment hide armor, light shield, 3 javelins​

 

[Lackhand]

I can return the question.

No you can't. At the most childish, because this is my thread, and so my whims of "what a goblin should be" beat your opinion of what a goblin should be, so there. Nyeah.

Why should these monsters not be dangerous for low-level adventurers?

Please reread my post in your quote.
Because goblin's ain't hobgoblins. Because I envision a goblin as being individually no real threat to a stout human with a pitchfork, save only that the goblin be uncommonly skilled. Because dying more easily does emphatically not an easier encounter make -- it makes the monster easier to kill, though, so somehow the encounter will need more oomph.

If you want your heroes to be fighting hordes of goblins and orcs, then you should become a higher level and go back and fight them again when you are stronger.

I shouldn't have to wait for my heroes to be beating up hordes of goblins; the genre expectation is that goblins are individually not-all-that-badass, and supporting rather than subverting that expectation is the order of the day.

I'm also pretty sure that beefing up the minions isn't the way I'd want to take this: the goblin powers and kobold powers are neat and make fighting goblins fun; sharpshooters and such are pretty cool.

They just take (subjectively) too much punishment to drop. Deleveling them is the right solution for me.