Two questions regarding dragons

UltimaGabe

First Post
About how much gp would a Young Adult Red Dragon's (CR 13) Horde be worth?

And what sort of minions would the above-mentioned dragon usually have, and how much would their equipment (if any) be worth?
 

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The DMG treasure guidelines will answer the first one (IDHTBWM).

For the second one, its all based on what the DM decides the dragon should have for flunkies. I'd say that the dragon is still fairly young, but could definitely have enlisted the aid of a humanoid tribe of some sort. Whoever they are, they would have equipment based on their treaure rating in the MM.
 

Alright. I've just never really run an adventure with a Dragon before, and the one I'm running later today (kinda waited till te last minute) is basically going to be just a short dungeon-crawl with a dragon at the end. (It's a lead-in to my next adventure, which is gonna be almost all roleplaying.) But I've never run a dragon before, and I want it to be challenging, and I want to play the dragon intelligently. So I was just wondering what sort of flunkies a dragon of that type should have, how much treasure he should have, and even what his lair should look like for that matter (should it be a hidden underground complex with all sorts of twists and turns, or should it just be a big hole in the side of a mountain with the dragon's pile of gold in it?). If anybody could give me any advice on running this dragon, I would appreciate it a lot.
 

UltimaGabe said:
About how much gp would a Young Adult Red Dragon's (CR 13) Horde be worth?

Well, that depends on whether it's a kobold horde, an orc horde or a barbarian horde ;)

Teasing aside, the Draconomicon sets the cost of a CR13 dragon's hoard as 39,000 gp. Just put in whatever you think would be interesting.

I don't have time to go into details and strategies, but you could check out the sample dragons listed in the "Wyrms of the North" feature on the WotC website here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20040128a. There's a lot of useful stuff there.
 

I'll give you a few tips that the draconomican gave me.

1) A dragon doesn't just collect treasure because they are greedy. Its like an innate part of being a dragon, as much so as turtles just knowing to go to the sea when their born or birds flying south. A hoard is also a measure of statis and power among other dragons.

Dragons who have lost their hoard have often become so traumatized they lose the will to live and can't even rest peacefully (ie they come back as ghosts).

So as far as his lair goes... it probably won't just be in a hole... but it would also be accesible to the dragon, they like to pull a scrooge mcduck and roll, swim, and play with their money

2) Dragons don't hold magic treasure in high value. They much prefer things with intrinsic value. Gems, gold, artwork, fancy scripture, etc. For purposes of dragon worth, half the market price of magic equipment.

As far as flunkies go, you could always check out the leadership chart. Consider the dragon's CR as its level, plus its charisma and that will give you a number at least. Don't know how good that number would be but its there.
 

Stalker0 said:
... but it would also be accesible to the dragon, they like to pull a scrooge mcduck and roll, swim, and play with their money.

Thanks...now I have the Duck Tales song in my head...

Duck Tales...ooo-WOO-ooo.
 

Remember that unlike just about everything else in the MM, the CR for Dragons assumes that the party knows that they're facing a dragon, and have prepared for it.

Red Dragons are incredibly arrogant and greedy SOBs that take victory for granted. Since any adventuring party actually capable of taking one on would shield itself against fire, and fire breath tends to ruin treasure, it's pretty reasonable for the dragon to not bother with its breath weapon. Fire breath is for emergencies and when it's clear that nothing of value would be lost to it.

If you want to be an ass, put Shield, Mage Armor, and Shield of Faith in it's spell list. A simple dispel magic would clear all of that away, but the expression on the fighter's face when he realizes that he has to hit AC 39 or so should make it worth it. On that note, the dragon should eat the spell casters first, since they're far more dangerous to it than the fighters are.

Trolls could be neat minions; they'd be utterly terrified of the Red, since it's one of the few things they've ever met that could kill them for good. A cluster of small fire elementals could also be interesting, since they can't possibly hurt the dragon, and the dragon doesn't have to worry about killing them through collatarel damage.

Mountains are the classic lairs for Reds; it should have multiple exit and entry points, at least some of which are only practically accessable through flight.
 

Don't forget that Reds can get cleric spells also. A retreat to cast several Cure Moderate Wounds spells might weaken the party's sails a bit. :)

Remember that unlike just about everything else in the MM, the CR for Dragons assumes that the party knows that they're facing a dragon, and have prepared for it.

I don't think this is as true in 3.5 as it was in 3.0. In 3.0 the dragon CRs were majorly understated, resulting in quite a few TPKs because DMs assumed that a CR 7 dragon as a random encounter would only use use 20% of their 7th level party's resources. In 3.5 the CRs seem to be closer to what they should be.
 

Hmm... alright, thanks for the help! I was thinking of possibly having the only entrance to the dragon's horde be a smoothe, steep downward incline, opening out into a huge room with a huge pit in the middle- that way, anybody on foot falls into the main room, and falls straight into a pit, taking falling damage and then being at the mercy of the Dragon waiting for them. Also, anybody incapable of flying might be able to get into the room to get the horde, but there's no way they're getting out unless they feel like digging through a mountain.
 

Epametheus said:
and fire breath tends to ruin treasure, it's pretty reasonable for the dragon to not bother with its breath weapon.

It's funny, because it says that (roughly) in the MM entry for the Red Dragon as well, but by the standard rules it is pretty much impossible for the red dragons breath to destroy any treasure!

Dragon breathes and does 100pts damage. PC's fall into crispy chunks but because nobody rolled a 1 on their saving throw all the magic items fall to the ground and bounce around, ready to be picked up. pah. Sounds like a video game.
 

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