D&D (2024) Another look at Dragons: CR 27 Ancient Red Dragon

[Upper_Krust]

Interesting stuff (coincidentally I was working on a CR 24 Ancient Red Dragon stat-block today to show off my own changes to stat-blocks for the book).

My initial thoughts on your dragon would be maybe there is too much for the GM to remember - but I know you love your big stat-blocks. Also I am not a fan of Initiative Expertise or Conditions without a saving throw - though I understand that's how WotC are doing things in the 2025 Monster Manual (waiting to get the Alternate Cover so do not have my copy yet).

I just have a few things to tweak on my dragon and I'll DM you about it tomorrow and we can swap notes buddy.

 

[TiQuinn]

I only have it for some of the exarchs currently, but it makes some sense to have it on all of them. I should be clear in that I don't think a statblock is the limit to what a monster can do. The dragon magic spells would really be like his favorite play list and not all the music he knows. That being said, I will probably add it back.

Conversely, a non-shapeshifting dragon, particularly an Exarch of Tiamat, may see taking on another form as beneath them.

 

[dave2008]

Conversely, a non-shapeshifting dragon, particularly an Exarch of Tiamat, may see taking on another form as beneath them.

I have definitely taken that approach before. That may have been my thought with this red too.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Draconic Actions become active when Exarch of Tiamat activates (like mythic actions). I thought it is redundant to mention that in both places, but I will look at that again and see if I can make it more clear

I think hiding restrictions in a trait is counter intuitive.

 

[dave2008]

Interesting stuff (coincidentally I was working on a CR 24 Ancient Red Dragon stat-block today to show off my own changes to stat-blocks for the book).

My initial thoughts on your dragon would be maybe there is too much for the GM to remember - but I know you love your big stat-blocks. Also I am not a fan of Initiative Expertise or Conditions without a saving throw - though I understand that's how WotC are doing things in the 2025 Monster Manual (waiting to get the Alternate Cover so do not have my copy yet).

I just have a few things to tweak on my dragon and I'll DM you about it tomorrow and we can swap notes buddy.

Yes, I like to give a lot of options. I tried to condense it when WotC moved to the generic rend for all physical attacks, but nothing really clicked with me. I get you about the saves, if look at the older version most of the physical condition allowed saves. I removed them for was of play.

FYI, I look forward to what you com up with. I am flying out of town shortly and will not be back until late Monday, so I may not get back to you until Tuesday.

PS - My Tiamat "book" with this red dragon will be the last thing I make with CR. I am moving to monster levels after I finish that book.

 

[dave2008]

I think hiding restrictions in a trait is counter intuitive.

I can see that. I did it originally to save space, but I have a lot of extra space so I am thinking of bringing it back. That being said, I assumed you red a stat block top to bottom, so you would see the restriction first before you even get to the draconic actions. That was my thought at least.

 

[Reynard]

@dave2008 why did you decide to eliminate frightful presence?

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008 why did you decide to eliminate frightful presence?

I was following the 2024 dragon model. It takes up a lot of space and has no impact on CR (per the 2014 DMG guidelines) so it was really a flavor ribbon. I may bring it back. That is why I posted this to get feedback and thoughts. Thank you!

 

[Reynard]

I was following the 2024 dragon model. It takes up a lot of space and has no impact on CR (per the 2014 DMG guidelines) so it was really a flavor ribbon. I may bring it back. That is why I posted this to get feedback and thoughts. Thank you!

I generally think "ribbon" abilities are still important to have for how they place the monsters in the world. A massive dragon should cause every non-hero in the region to soil themselves in fear. You can say that in your flavor text, of course, but having an ability that does it is worthwhile. plus, you don't have to take up too much space.

Frightful Presence (Wis DC 22). Trigger: the dragon attacks or uses an action to roar. Targets: All creatures within 500 feet who can see or hear the dragon. Success: the creature is immune to the ability for 24 hours. Failure: the creature is frightened for 1 hour. After 1 minute, the creature may make another saving throw.

 

[dave2008]

I generally think "ribbon" abilities are still important to have for how they place the monsters in the world. A massive dragon should cause every non-hero in the region to soil themselves in fear. You can say that in your flavor text, of course, but having an ability that does it is worthwhile. plus, you don't have to take up too much space.

Frightful Presence (Wis DC 22). Trigger: the dragon attacks or uses an action to roar. Targets: All creatures within 500 feet who can see or hear the dragon. Success: the creature is immune to the ability for 24 hours. Failure: the creature is frightened for 1 hour. After 1 minute, the creature may make another saving throw.

I may go old school and make HD (or Hit Points) based. So creatures with less than 50 HP (or something) have the frightened condition.

If you follow my work, you will see I go back and forth on whether to include ribbon features in the statblock or descriptive text. I will probably put it back in as it is such an iconic D&D dragon trait.