[UA] Defense Bonus, Damage Reduction, & Damage Conversion

[thundershot]

I'm trying to find a way to use all three of these in my campaign. Then the blasted Bracers of Armor got me screwed up as well.

If, using all three variants, a 5th level Fighter (Def +7) wears chain mail +3 (+3 armor bonus, +3 magical, total +6, and DR:2/-) and is hit with three attacks that do 5, 8, and 9 points of damage.

First attack ends up doing 3 points of non-lethal damage.
Second attack does 6 points of non-lethal damage.
Third attack does 6 points of non-lethal damage, and 1 point of real damage.

Am I doing this correct? I'm having the DR take effect first, then the armor absorbtion, then the real damage.

Bracers of armor and amulets of natural armor ALWAYS frell me up. Do the magical plusses from the armor stack with the bracers bonus if the bracers provide more armor bonus than the armor itself? Or is it just the higher of the two?


Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Pax]

Am I doing this correct? I'm having the DR take effect first, then the armor absorbtion, then the real damage.

Looks good to me.

Bracers of armor and amulets of natural armor ALWAYS frell me up. Do the magical plusses from the armor stack with the bracers bonus if the bracers provide more armor bonus than the armor itself? Or is it just the higher of the two?

Consider:

• Bracers of Armor provide an Armor bonus to the wearer;
• Magical armor has an Enhancement bonus to it's own armor bonus - thus, a suit of +3 chainmail, using the rules you cite from UA, has a +6 armor bonus;
• An Armor bonus would not stack with an Armor bonus.

So. Let's take your same Chainmail+3, and soe Bracers of Armor (+5). IF the same person wears them, they have a +6 armor bonus from the Chainmail +3, and a +5 armor bonus from the Bracers. That means, they only get the benefit of the +6 bonus - the better of the two.

 

[thundershot]

Hm... Also, it's not clear how the "Armor as DR" rules work with the bracers. Surely the bracers don't change, and only give the +5 bonus to the AC, and no DR. Having the armor on would give the additional DR:2/-. But the bracers wouldn't stack with the Defense Bonus, right?


Thanks
Chris

 

[Pax]

I'd have to check, but: if the defense bonus stacks with armor, it stacks with the Bracers. Bracers of Armor provide an Armor bonus, just like chainmail does. It's the bonus type which matters, more than it's source. ^_^

 

[thundershot]

The defense bonus DOESN'T stack with armor, that's stated in UA. So presumably bracers wouldn't either. It's the DR that I was most curious about... I don't think bracers would provide any DR, since all of their bonus is similar to the plusses on magical armor, and that doesn't get converted into DR...


Thanks
Chris

 

[Pax]

Oh, in that case, I'd convert the Bracers the same as any suit of armor. Both give an armor bonus. The "plus" of magic armor is for an enhancement bonus to the underlaying armor's armor bonus; the + of a pair of Bracers of Armor is in no way related to the + of a suit of magical armor, other than that both make it harder to hit the wearer.

 

[thundershot]

Hm....

So if someone were wearing both armor AND bracers, then the DR would stack, but the AC bonus wouldn't? (according to UA) Also, using the class bonus system, wouldn't that make a pair of +1 bracers completely useless? (+2 bracers would at least give you DR 1/-) That's why I was thinking that maybe the bracers SHOULD stack... I dunno.

Anyone else want to throw in two cents?


Thanks
Chris

 

[JoAT]

First off, as a general rule (I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but), bonuses from enhancement like sources don;t convert into DR - they just stay the same as always - the bracers just give you and AC bonus, nothing else. Which makes the armor look alot more attractive, even if it does have a lower AC bonus.

Second, I'm using all three together in my current game. I'm doing things slightly diffrently that you are - I've got my own defence bonus table, and I;ve out things together slightly diffrently... Let's see here... *Goes digging for the houserules document* If you're interested, my rules work out thusly:

Good      Medium    Poor
+1        +1        +0
+2        +2        +1
+2        +2        +1
+3        +3        +1
+3        +3        +2
+4        +3        +2
+4        +4        +2
+5        +4        +3
+5        +5        +3
+6        +5        +3
+6        +5        +4
+7        +6        +4
+7        +6        +4
+8        +6        +5
+8        +7        +5
+9        +7        +5
+9        +8        +6
+10       +8        +6
+10       +8        +6
+11       +9        +7

Good progression goes to classes with both a good reflex save and either an evasion or Uncanny dodge type ability. Classes with Good progression: Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Swashbuckler.

Medium progression to classes with either a good reflex save or an evasion or uncanny dodge type ability. Classes with Medium progression: Barbarian, Bard. I'm thinking that I should put Hexblade in this group - it just seems to fit the flavor.

Poor progression goes to classes with neither. Classes with Poor progression: Cleric, Cloistered Cleric Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Sorcerer, Wizard.

Armor as Damage Reduction
Armor Damage Conversion (Note: This does stack with Armor as damage reduction. However, it uses the new AC bonus, effectively halving the conversion number - also, see notes below on how all of these defense variants interact)

Besides the DR/ Damage conversion rules, armor undergoes a secondary change, albeit smaller than the other two. The maximum Dexterity bonus is changed to read maximum defense bonus. Defense bonus is defined as class defense bonus + Dexterity modifier.

This has prompted some additional class changes, to help make armor desireable:

Additional Class abilities:

Armor compatibility(EX): This ability allows a character to utilize any armor worn to it's best effect, overcoming the defense bonus limit of most suits. Characters with this ability may add their Armor Compatibility number to the maximum defense bonus of any armor worn, for purposes of determining how much of their defense modifier applies.

With this ability, the fighter's progression chart looks like this:

Table: The Fighter
Level   BAB     Fort    Ref     Will    Special                  Defense
1st     +1      +2      +0      +0      Bonus feat, Reserve      +0
2nd     +2      +3      +0      +0      Bonus feat               +1
3rd     +3      +3      +1      +1      Armor Compatibility +1   +1
4th     +4      +4      +1      +1      Bonus feat               +1
5th     +5      +4      +1      +1                               +2
6th     +6      +5      +2      +2      Bonus feat               +2
7th     +7      +5      +2      +2      Armor Compatibility +2   +2
8th     +8      +6      +2      +2      Bonus feat               +3
9th     +9      +6      +3      +3                               +3
10th    +10     +7      +3      +3      Bonus feat               +3
11th    +11     +7      +3      +3      Armor Compatibility +3   +4
12th    +12     +8      +4      +4      Bonus feat               +4
13th    +13     +8      +4      +4                               +4
14th    +14     +9      +4      +4      Bonus feat               +5
15th    +15     +9      +5      +5      Armor Compatibility +4   +5
16th    +16     +10     +5      +5      Bonus feat               +5
17th    +17     +10     +5      +5                               +6
18th    +18     +11     +6      +6      Bonus feat               +6
19th    +19     +11     +6      +6      Armor Compatibility +5   +6
20th    +20     +12     +6      +6      Bonus feat               +7

Armor compatibility is also added to the Paladin, starting at level 5, and going up another +1 at levels 10, 15 and 20.

Hexblades gain Armor Compatibility at the same rate as a Paladin.