UGH! Help with clueless player who can't multiclass

[Mystery Man]

I've tried, honestly I have.

The conversation so far:

His question:
When I hit level 8 I will be taking a level of Spellsword, which says that I also get another level of my arcane spellcasting class (Sorcerer). So I will be a 7th level Sorcerer, 1st level Fighter and a 1st level Spellsword (9 total levels) at level 8 right? If so then do I get the combined BAB and Fort, Ref and Will saves of each? Do I then get a d8 roll for hits from the Spellsword and a d4 roll for hits from the level of Sorcerer that I get?

Yikes! Somebody didn't read the section in the PHB on multiclassing eh?

My reply:
You are a 6th level sorcerer, 1st level fighter, 1st level spellsword. You add +1 to your existing 6th level spell casting class so you’re considered a 7th level spellcaster (sorcerer). You’ll add the BaB, saves etc from the spellsword table to you existing level which is right now, “7”.

Clear as mud?

B

Pretty easy to figure out from there, or so you would think?

His question to my reply:
Mkay…. The Spellsword text says “At every odd numbered level of spellsword you gain new spells per day as I you had gained a level in your arcane spellcasting level but you do not gain any other benefit that a character of the class would have gained save for an increase in effective level of spellcasting.”

Now….. It does not sound like I get the BAB and saves of the next level of Sorcerer, just the spells and effective class….. so when I go back to take another full level of Sorcerer how do I handle adding the BAB and saves to my character since I would have skipped some levels while taking levels of Spellsword?

The Spellsword prestige class does not say you can not bounce back and forth between Sorcerer and Spellsword.

Yikes! Help

Help me, help him!

I think he thinks he's going to build up his sorcerer on the levels that the spellsword does not get a spellcasting class, but since he's already that level of caster (equivalent thereof) I'm saying he can't do it. Right? Left? Head spinning....must...stop the insanity!

 

[Bauglir]

I find examples tend to help.

Points to get across:
A Spellsword does not gain levels as a sorcerer, it merely advances the casting ability.

ie: When you reach level 8 you will be a Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 6 / Spellsword 1

You will still only be a 6th level sorcerer, but you will be able to cast spells AS IF you were a 7th level sorcerer.

Hit dice: You just take what ever hd is appropriate for the level in the class you take - there's no overlap there.

ie Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 6 / Spellsword 1 = 1d10 + 6d4 + 1d8 (+ con modifier * 8)

If in the future you want to take another sorcerer level, you would then become a level 7 sorcerer - lets say you become a Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 7 / Spellsword 1. The easiest way to work this out is to look at the differences between a level 6 and 7 sorcerer, and apply these changes to your character.

In this case, a 6th and 7th level sorcerer has exactly the same BAB and saves so there is no change. Moving from 7th to 8th level sorcerer would grant you +1 BAB and +1 to your will save.

For purposes of spells per day, and spells known (and ONLY these things) you may consider yourself as an 8th level sorcerer due to the extra caster level granted by the spellsword.

 

[Mystery Man]

For purposes of spells per day, and spells known (and ONLY these things) you may consider yourself as an 8th level sorcerer due to the extra caster level granted by the spellsword.

You can? That's the problem I need to be clear on. Say your a 7th level sorcerer/1st level fighter/1st level Spellsword and want to take a level of sorcerer. You're already considered an 8th level caster due to your spellsword class wouldn't the sorcerer class not stack?

 

[Bauglir]

The key to understanding this is to appreciate that 'caster level' and 'class level' are different.

A fighter 1 / sorcerer 7 / spellsword 1 has a sorcerer class level of 7 but a caster level of 8.

The difference can be hard to see with the sorcerer class as it grants you little more than caster level. The familiar's advancement is a good example:

A 7th level sorcerer's familiar would be able to speak with animals of its kind, while a sorc6/spellsword1's familiar would not.

Master
Class Level Natural
Armor Adj. Int Special
1st–2nd +1 6 Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, empathic link
3rd–4th +2 7 Deliver touch spells
5th–6th +3 8 Speak with master
7th–8th +4 9 Speak with animals of its kind
9th–10th +5 10 —
11th–12th +6 11 Spell resistance
13th–14th +7 12 Scry on familiar
15th–16th +8 13 —
17th–18th +9 14 —
19th–20th +10 15 —

Caster level provides (for the sorcerer) spells known and spells per day (and may also scale some spells - a fireball cast by a sorc6/spellsword1 would do 7d6 damage). It's also used in Dispel checks, and when trying to overcome spell resistance.

 

[dcollins]

Help me, help him!

Say you are a Sorcerer A/Spellsword B.
Then, when preparing spells you may act as if he were a Sorcerer of level A+B/2 (round up). You're not really -- you just act this way for spell preparation.

Examples:
Level 8) Ftr1/Sor6/Spl1 --> prepare spells as Sor7.
Level 9) Ftr1/Sor7/Spl1 --> prepare spells as Sor8.
etc.

 

[Mystery Man]

Got it worked out. Thanks!