ugh math... str dex fighter in hide.

[Flipguarder]

I'm in the process of building a fighter. I was just wondering if a sword and board fighter could ever have a reasonably high ac (for a fighter) while wearing hide. Maybe there is a level where it evens out.

All I know is that my str/con warden in hide and with a relatively high con has a 38 or 39 standard ac at level 20 and I think that's pretty good for a defender of that level. This would essentially be the same thing, except hide and dex instead of hide and con.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm in the process of building a fighter. I was just wondering if a sword and board fighter could ever have a reasonably high ac (for a fighter) while wearing hide. Maybe there is a level where it evens out.

All I know is that my str/con warden in hide and with a relatively high con has a 38 or 39 standard ac at level 20 and I think that's pretty good for a defender of that level. This would essentially be the same thing, except hide and dex instead of hide and con.

The math is actually pretty simple. Just look at the ACs at level 1, since everything else will basically even out. Everyone gets +1/2 level, everyone gets the same magical armor bonuses, the only thing that varies is material bonuses and those are very, very close to equal for all armor types.

So at level 1,

A generic sword and board fighter in scale armor with a heavy shield has an AC of 19.

A generic sword and board fighter in hide armor has an AC of 15 +dex.

That's pretty much that.

 

[Tai]

The way the maths works out, if you start with a dex of 20 and buy it up every level, you'll have the same AC in hide or in plate.

 

[Flipguarder]

thanks guys thats good to know. I wasn't aware a fighter in hide was such a reasonable idea.

 

[Klaus]

Unless you plan on upping Dex at every chance, you'd be better off with chainmail (and you can even get Agile Chainmail).

At level 1, hide + Dex 16 = chainmail (total +6)
At level 6, hide +2 + Dex 18 = finemail +2 (total +9)
At level 11, hide +3 + Dex 20 = braidmail +3 (total +11)
At level 16, darkhide +4 + Dex 20 = forgemail +4 (total +13)
At level 21, darkhide +5 + Dex 22 = weavemail +5 (total +15)
At level 26, elderhide +6 + Dex 24 = spiritmail +6 (total +18)

 

[Ulrik]

If you are a half orc you can get 18 str/18 dex, which I think would be the best case. Comparing to scale armor with MW bonuses and stat increases:

lvl 1: hide ac 17/scale ac 17
+2 armor (say lvl 6): hide ac 21/scale ac 22
lvl 8, still +2 armor: hide ac 24/scale ac 24
+3 armor (lvl 11): hide ac 26/scale 27
lvl 14 (+3 armor): hide ac 29/scale 29
+4 armor (lvl 16): hide ac 32/scale 32
+5 armor (lvl 20): hide ac 35/scale 36
lvl 21 (+5 armor): hide ac 36/scale 36
+6 armor (lvl 26): hide ac 40/scale 42
lvl 28 (+6 armor): hide ac 43/scale 44

If you are using the masterwork armor rules from phb2, scale gets an advantage every time you get an extra + on your armor, which cancels out with the stat bonus you gain every second stat boost lvl (8, 14, 21, 26). What is best depends on if you get +2 armor before or after lvl 8, and so on. Scale pulls ahead in late epic with Elderscale's +13 (and extra point), but hide armor gives +1 or +2 to fortitude defense at +1, +2, +4 and +5 levels.

Plate armor gives a better bonus than both, but requires a feat (and high con). Also note that scale specialization only requires 15 dex while hide specialization requires con 15, something you can't get until lvl 21 if you want dex/str 18 and are pumping both every level to keep up your ac in light armor (max 13 con at lvl 1 with normal point buy). If you plan to take an armor spec feat at paragon, Scale is the better option (and gives you extra speed to boot).

But having said all that, the difference is pretty minor, 1 point of AC at paragon and when you get a new level of magic armor before stat increases, 2 points at late epic with spec feat. Extra fortitude defense from masterwork hide armor isn't bad. But you have to pump dex every chance you get.

 

[eriktheguy]

I made a pretty effective sword'n'board half-orc. I especially like this feat that gives you +1 power to AC whenever you hit with a shield attack. If you take tide of iron, and a few shield based encounter powers, its awesome. I went with hide armor and currently have the highest AC in the group by a good amount. Around level 9 I think it was 26.

 

[DracoSuave]

All that said, given for one feat you can have plate, that's much less an investment than all those points into Dex. It's not worth it unless you have a compelling reason to top out your Dex. Putting a 20, or even an 18, into Dex at level 1 is going to -severly- cripple you in other ways as a Fighter.

 

[abyssaldeath]

All that said, given for one feat you can have plate, that's much less an investment than all those points into Dex. It's not worth it unless you have a compelling reason to top out your Dex. Putting a 20, or even an 18, into Dex at level 1 is going to -severly- cripple you in other ways as a Fighter.

There are feats in Dragon that let you use DEX in place of WIS.

 

[DracoSuave]

There are feats in Dragon that let you use DEX in place of WIS.

I was thinking that Strength couldn't be at its best while still having a fairly decent Constitution.

Wisdom didn't hit my radar.