ugh math... str dex fighter in hide.

[Klaus]

If you are a half orc you can get 18 str/18 dex, which I think would be the best case. Comparing to scale armor with MW bonuses and stat increases:

lvl 1: hide ac 17/scale ac 17
+2 armor (say lvl 6): hide ac 21/scale ac 22
lvl 8, still +2 armor: hide ac 24/scale ac 24
+3 armor (lvl 11): hide ac 26/scale 27
lvl 14 (+3 armor): hide ac 29/scale 29
+4 armor (lvl 16): hide ac 32/scale 32
+5 armor (lvl 20): hide ac 35/scale 36
lvl 21 (+5 armor): hide ac 36/scale 36
+6 armor (lvl 26): hide ac 40/scale 42
lvl 28 (+6 armor): hide ac 43/scale 44

If you are using the masterwork armor rules from phb2, scale gets an advantage every time you get an extra + on your armor, which cancels out with the stat bonus you gain every second stat boost lvl (8, 14, 21, 26). What is best depends on if you get +2 armor before or after lvl 8, and so on. Scale pulls ahead in late epic with Elderscale's +13 (and extra point), but hide armor gives +1 or +2 to fortitude defense at +1, +2, +4 and +5 levels.

Plate armor gives a better bonus than both, but requires a feat (and high con). Also note that scale specialization only requires 15 dex while hide specialization requires con 15, something you can't get until lvl 21 if you want dex/str 18 and are pumping both every level to keep up your ac in light armor (max 13 con at lvl 1 with normal point buy). If you plan to take an armor spec feat at paragon, Scale is the better option (and gives you extra speed to boot).

But having said all that, the difference is pretty minor, 1 point of AC at paragon and when you get a new level of magic armor before stat increases, 2 points at late epic with spec feat. Extra fortitude defense from masterwork hide armor isn't bad. But you have to pump dex every chance you get.

Instead of sinking feats into plate, there's the option of getting Agile chainmail, which adds Dex to AC while unbloodied (up to +1 at heroic, +2 at Paragon and +3 at Epic).

 

[DracoSuave]

If you're a half-orc, you can 18 out both Strength and Dexterity.

4+3=7, Which is the same as scale. Which means that hide -is- worthwhile for a tempest fighter who starts with 18 dexterity, and is likely to increase said Dexterity for his carreer. This is because your other option, chain, is not as high. However if you start with Dex 16, your options are 'What has the best item power/feature' which is beyond the scope of this discussion

However, if you're sword and board, you're not tempest. Which means that you need a compelling reason to go into light armor other than 'I can.' Perhaps you want -1 to skills rather than -1 to speed, and this is a perfectly legitimate concern.

Sadly, the only way to get past scale in light armor as a fighter is to go with a 20 dexterity, or have some feature or power that gives you a bonus to AC in light armor. Seeing as you're not an Avenger or a Swordmage (with your stat distro you can't be effective as a Hybrid in these roles) you're better off just going Armor Proficiency: Plate and calling it a day, or just biting the bullet and choosing between Hide and Scale.


So really, that's it. With an 18 dexterity, you have to choose between -1 to certain skills, or -1 to speed. At paragon level, with specialization, you -might- make 15 con for armor spec (hide), but you'll -definately- have 15 dex for spec (scale) so you can just take that, and forget about light armor completely at paragon. Until then tho, you're not locked in so pick either.

 

[Elric]

Instead of sinking feats into plate, there's the option of getting Agile chainmail, which adds Dex to AC while unbloodied (up to +1 at heroic, +2 at Paragon and +3 at Epic).

Agile armor is anywhere from slightly worse to much worse than a one-plus higher basic "Magic" Armor, depending on what level you're at. Unless you can get Agile Armor and then trade it out soon after for the basic magic armor with a +1 better enhancement bonus (or you don't care because the character is a one-shot), or you already have +6 Magic Armor and there's no +7 Magic Armor to get, Agile Armor generally isn't worth taking.

Edit: the reason for this seemingly counter-intuitive result is that the Masterwork Armors get better with higher enhancement bonuses, so the default Masterwork Armor with the best AC bonus comes out better than Agile (assuming you're using AV/PH-II MW Armors).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Another option with sword and board is to go light blade. Take Rapier and there are several feats you can access with that. It can be quite effective with a high dex from what I have seen posted various places. The other path with fighter and light armor is the polearm path, but that isn't a shield type fighter.

The only other advantage to a high dex fighter is you can do OK with ranged weapons. Maybe pick up a ranger MC and get Twin Strike, which you can use once per encounter with thrown weapons or a bow. Having a backup javelin that you are fairly deadly with can be nice, but it isn't critical.

 

[FurryFighter]

Another option with sword and board is to go light blade. Take Rapier and there are several feats you can access with that. It can be quite effective with a high dex from what I have seen posted various places. The other path with fighter and light armor is the polearm path, but that isn't a shield type fighter.

The only other advantage to a high dex fighter is you can do OK with ranged weapons. Maybe pick up a ranger MC and get Twin Strike, which you can use once per encounter with thrown weapons or a bow. Having a backup javelin that you are fairly deadly with can be nice, but it isn't critical.

Heavy thrown weapons are based on Str vs. AC.
Light thrown and projectile weapons are based on Dex vs. AC.

Javelin is a Str vs AC weapon. therefor, dex wouldnt be needed to MC for twin strike using thrown weapons, but then again that also requires the use of minor or standard actions to equip both and throw them, then there's the less range thing.

 

[Diirk]

If you're a half-orc, you can 18 out both Strength and Dexterity.

4+3=7, Which is the same as scale. Which means that hide -is- worthwhile for a tempest fighter who starts with 18 dexterity, and is likely to increase said Dexterity for his carreer.

This is a bit misleading, you'll have the same starting AC as scale, but for alot of your career you'll actually have about the same AC as chain.

Eg lvl 10:
- AC 10 + 5 (half level) + 5 (dex of 20) + 6 (+3 earthhide) = 26
- AC 10 + 5 (half level) + 11 (+3 braidmail) = 26

lvl 14, when you get the stat bump to 22 dex:
- AC 10 + 7 + 6 + 6 = 29
- AC 10 + 7 + 11 = 28

But lvl 15 when you can start with +4 armour and probably have it by now:
- AC 10 + 7 + 6 + 7 = 30
- AC 10 + 7 + 13 = 30

And the next stat bump isn't til 21, by which point you should have +5 armour already. So really, once you start running into the AV masterworks bonuses around 5th level or so for chain, chain = hide. Scale is almost always better than hide after this point, and doesn't require a frankly huge ability expenditure, and also has better enchantments (unless they have better hide tanking enchantments in AV2.. I didn't check).

 

[tiornys]

Heavy thrown weapons are based on Str vs. AC.
Light thrown and projectile weapons are based on Dex vs. AC.

Javelin is a Str vs AC weapon. therefor, dex wouldnt be needed to MC for twin strike using thrown weapons, but then again that also requires the use of minor or standard actions to equip both and throw them, then there's the less range thing.

Wrong, unfortunately. Heavy thrown weapons let you use Str on a basic ranged attack, but that doesn't override the ability tied to a power. Twin Strike at range is a Dex based power, regardless of the type of ranged weapon you use to perform it.

Wonky masterwork math aside, I think Hide armor is potentially worthwhile for a Fighter who plans their character around the encounter and daily Fighter powers that key off of Dex for their bonuses. After all, Dex is one of the Fighter's secondary ability scores.

t~

 

[Blackbrrd]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that upping dex increases your reflex defense. The other alternative would be to up wisdom or constitution. Constitution overlaps with strength, so you will get higher defences with dexterity as your second highest stat.

 

[Klaus]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that upping dex increases your reflex defense. The other alternative would be to up wisdom or constitution. Constitution overlaps with strength, so you will get higher defences with dexterity as your second highest stat.

But to get to the point where Hide + Dex equals Chainmail, you'll have two high stats (Str and Dex) and the rest will be middling at best, resulting in very poor Will (no Wis/Cha) and low hp (no Con).

 

[eriktheguy]

So scale AC advances faster than Dex/Hide now with the new armor advancement rules in AV I? I find that ironic since those additions were supposed to balance heavy armor with light/AC. Now the second best heavy armor is superior to the best light armor and high starting DEX. Its really bad design when a character with 18 starting DEX is better off taking scale armor than light armor.