Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I loved Peter MacNichol's Asgardian commoner!
D&D General I'm a Fighter, not a Lover: Why the 1e Fighter was so Awesome
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EthanSental
Legend
Walt Simonson Thor, classic 80s comic goodness!
Voadam
Legend
Talking about spellcasting and initiative in another thread got me thinking about how much of a threat attacks to spellcasting have changed since 1e.
1e has 10 segment rounds and casting time in segments. Usually one segment per spell level (with power words only taking 1 segment, and oddball ritual type spells taking longer than a round). Surprise is measured in segments and count as 1 full round for physical attack sequences but still count as full segments for casting. Anytime you are hit in melee before a spell goes off it is disrupted and lost. And casting the caster can't move and loses dex bonus while casting. On the plus side for high level magic users power words are powerful combat spells that are harder to disrupt as a 1 segment ninth level power word kill goes off after initiative roll +1 instead of ninth level meteor swarm's initiative roll +9 segments.
In B/X Basic "Similarly, because the words and gestures must be repeated exactly, spells cannot be cast while performing any other action (such as walking or fighting)." so no casting if engaged in melee and you also can't cast in the same round you disengage from melee.
In 2e you have a d10 adding in casting time and weapon speeds. Spells are not in explicit segments anymore, but it is fairly similar to 1e in usually being the spell level and getting disrupted over a time that is greater the greater the casting time. A little swingier of an impact on a d10 + time versus 1e's d6 + casting time, but still a significant consideration.
3e turns casting time into a standard action, so generally only disrupted if a fighter readies an action to single attack (giving up full attacks) during casting, or if casting in melee you provoke an attack of opportunity (but the caster can make a DC 15 skill check to not provoke) and then there is a concentration check to not get disrupted if you take damage. The window for a fighter to disrupt a caster is much narrower. Hitting before the casting does not disrupt the casting that round. Power words lose their advantage as all spells are the same casting time as power words. Casters can also cast a touch spell at range without provoking, hold the charge and move in to make a touch attack in the same round without provoking.
5e works a lot like 3e, but no provoking AoOs at all, the only mechanical drawback to casting in melee is disadvantage on the caster's ranged spell attacks (but nothing for saving throw spells or non attack spells or melee spell attacks like touch spells).
1e has 10 segment rounds and casting time in segments. Usually one segment per spell level (with power words only taking 1 segment, and oddball ritual type spells taking longer than a round). Surprise is measured in segments and count as 1 full round for physical attack sequences but still count as full segments for casting. Anytime you are hit in melee before a spell goes off it is disrupted and lost. And casting the caster can't move and loses dex bonus while casting. On the plus side for high level magic users power words are powerful combat spells that are harder to disrupt as a 1 segment ninth level power word kill goes off after initiative roll +1 instead of ninth level meteor swarm's initiative roll +9 segments.
In B/X Basic "Similarly, because the words and gestures must be repeated exactly, spells cannot be cast while performing any other action (such as walking or fighting)." so no casting if engaged in melee and you also can't cast in the same round you disengage from melee.
In 2e you have a d10 adding in casting time and weapon speeds. Spells are not in explicit segments anymore, but it is fairly similar to 1e in usually being the spell level and getting disrupted over a time that is greater the greater the casting time. A little swingier of an impact on a d10 + time versus 1e's d6 + casting time, but still a significant consideration.
3e turns casting time into a standard action, so generally only disrupted if a fighter readies an action to single attack (giving up full attacks) during casting, or if casting in melee you provoke an attack of opportunity (but the caster can make a DC 15 skill check to not provoke) and then there is a concentration check to not get disrupted if you take damage. The window for a fighter to disrupt a caster is much narrower. Hitting before the casting does not disrupt the casting that round. Power words lose their advantage as all spells are the same casting time as power words. Casters can also cast a touch spell at range without provoking, hold the charge and move in to make a touch attack in the same round without provoking.
5e works a lot like 3e, but no provoking AoOs at all, the only mechanical drawback to casting in melee is disadvantage on the caster's ranged spell attacks (but nothing for saving throw spells or non attack spells or melee spell attacks like touch spells).
GwaihirAgain
Explorer
This is how we did it too, great thread!
Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I've always seen "fighting" here being a specified kind of action. Attacking. So there's no issue casting while engaged, you just can't attack and cast in the same round. Some spells (like Cause Light Wounds) would be impossible to use if you couldn't cast them while engaged. Others, like Web with its 10' range and 10'sq area, would be darn hard to use.
It's just risky because you're reliant on winning initiative / not being hit!
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Voadam
Legend
Is there otherwise a way to cast and attack in the same round in B/X that this would prevent?
Your interpretation is you are not fighting if someone is attacking you and you cast a cause light wounds spell to attack them back with it?
Interpreting it as not being engaged in melee does cause a problem for the two B/X touch attack spells, cause light wounds and cause serious wounds. It would essentially make them out of combat torture/execution only spells.
Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
There is not, but as those rules are written aimed at newbies, they felt the need to explicitly state this kind of thing.
Your interpretation is you are not fighting if someone is attacking you and you cast a cause light wounds spell to attack them back with it?
Yes, assuming that for the purposes of the rule in question that "fighting" means attacking with a weapon or something other than a spell.Yup. Which would make it weird that they specify requiring an attack roll in combat.
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