Ultimate Combat Playtest: Gunslinger, Ninja, Samurai

[Kaisoku]

Considering some of the sentences you wrote are verbatim to a thread already going on over in the Beta test forums, I'll probably leave my thoughts on the Katana alone in this thread.

I've seen some of the comments you've made for the Samurai repeated by more than a few others in the beta test forums, and I'll have to echo my sentiments from there here: I don't think people have really looked through the class fully.
Specifically, you've completely overlooked the Resolve, Greater Resolve, Honorable Stand, True Resolve, and Last Stand abilities. These replaced much of the mount focus and tactics stuff that the Cavalier was "saddled" with (pun intended!).
Simply from looking through each ability.. it really feels like the Samurai will have a completely different feel in play compared to the Cavalier.

Lastly, for the Gunslinger and Ninja, I don't have anything new to add to Volaran's posts, or the link he put up of my post on the Gunslinger.

 

[Cergorach]

I like the Gunslinger and could fit neatly in a campaign were the GM is even moderately flexible. Played an Elf once who had a pistol, pretty much a one shot deal, and probably not the most effective weapon. But I thought it had style and I used i consistently in the same way for a long time instead of min-maxing and that made the GM somewhat more flexible, it scared the primitive goblinoids, and I could sometimes pull of a classic Indiana Jones moment. The class gives of a pretty perfect image of what I wanted to achieve, I do think that the 'Grit' mechanic is a bit more cumbersome then necessary, but I can live with it.

As for the Firearms mechanics *shrugs*, the touch attack makes it a very different weapon from normal, that makes you think twice how, when and on whom to use it on. Personally I think it gives a more strategic depth to the fighter class, it might not be the most realistic mechanic, but neither are hitpoints (as a side note, a classic pistol bullet goes pretty good through plate armor and don't have things like Golems DR?). Do you want to use them well and regularly in combat, you'll need to specialize, the Gunslinger still has the ability to use swords and stuff, so that is pretty much what you can use in close combat.

Didn't the Ninja use a different sword then the Katana? A straighter sword called the Ninjato. I can understand they want to keep things simple and use things most westerners know from the movies. As for treating the Katana as a Bastard Sword, an excellent and time honored tradition, using it two handed it is a Martial Weapon, so Warriors can use it without a problem.

The Ninja as a class... I don't know, I really have to take a look at it, it comes across as needlessly complex. The same goes for the Samurai class. I like that they did some official work on classes that are used in oriental campaigns, not many of us play them though.

These three new classes only make up a small part of the new book, it holds many options for all the other classes.

 

[Azgulor]

I agree with Pawsplay's initial assessment 100%.

While I think the Gunslinger is cool mechanically, it doesn't mix well with standard frpg play. How'd we jump to a Wild West gunslinger from swords-n-sorcery? No musketeer's? In emulating the pulp genre on another planet in Golarion's solar system, perhaps it has a place. If this is the common fighter of Alkenstar, Paizo's ensuring that Alkenstar influences on my game will equal zero.

Ninja - seems to have fallen into the dreaded "I'm a rogue but better since I'm a ninja!" trap.

Samurai - why is this a class again?

Ninja & Samurai were made for the innovative archetype concept which debuted in the Advanced Player's Guide. They don't warrant their own classes.

I still think the bulk of the book will be of use to me, but these classes --- I'm underwhelmed/disappointed.

 

[Azgulor]

I have no interest in guns (in Pathfinder) whatsoever, so this will likely be the first book from Paizo that has a large chunk of it that will be of no value to me.

Hopefully they (guns) won't show up in an adventure path... Blech.

Agreed and I share the concern. While the PFRPG books are not Golarion-specific, many players will expect that anything contianed in a RPG book with PATHFINDER on the cover will be fair game in a Golarion campaign. I have zero interest in seeing revolvers and gunslingers showing up in APs and modules set in Golarion.

If you're doing an Alkenstar module, sure. Otherwise, no thanks.

 

[Azgulor]

I haven't had a chance to read through them all yet, but apparently what you observe is intentional.

Samurai replaces cavalier, ninja replaces rogue. Interestingly, gunslinger replaces fighter.

I'm not sure if there is a good, rules-y reason they distinguished the "alternate class" concept from the alternate class features from the Advanced Player's Guide, though I suppose the Antipaladin is a precedent.

I've seen this distinction thrown around the Paizo boards as well but haven't seen it confirmed by an official source. The fact that the Antipaladin doesn't replace the Paladin kind of flies in the face of this assessment, however.

 

[Volaran]

I've seen this distinction thrown around the Paizo boards as well but haven't seen it confirmed by an official source. The fact that the Antipaladin doesn't replace the Paladin kind of flies in the face of this assessment, however.

Here you go.

Each alternate class replaces the class features from another class. When a character takes a level in one of these classes, he cannot later take levels in the other version of that class. For example, when a character takeslevels of ninja, he cannot later take levels of rogue. For the purposes of prerequisites or other effects, each of these alternate classes counts as the class that it is related to.

 

[Cergorach]

Where did you guys see revolvers? I only saw single shot, front loading pistols (musket).

 

[Volaran]

Only the musket and the pistol are in the playtest. The other guns will be coming later in the Inner Sea Worldguide, and (presumably duplicated and/or expanded) in ultimate combat. We've been given enough guns for the playtest and that's it.

 

[Cergorach]

Only the musket and the pistol are in the playtest. The other guns will be coming later in the Inner Sea Worldguide, and (presumably duplicated and/or expanded) in ultimate combat. We've been given enough guns for the playtest and that's it.

I do think that a revolver probably is outside of most D&D games, the pistol/musket as written in the playtest I have no problem with. As I can only 'judge' what is in the playtest and not some future product that might or might not transfer to the end product of this playtest, I think reffering to unknowns and judging something (the gunslinger class) based on assumptions, is a bit like jumping the gun ;-)

 

[Azgulor]

Here you go.

This I had seen. However, this is addressing class features & multi-classing. It is not saying that ninja replaces rogue or gunslinger replaces the fighter class in the campaign.

Thanks for finding that quote, though.