D&D General Ultimate Fencers of 5e DnD

[doctorbadwolf]

So, I was imagining a character of mine and how I would have built him if the campaign were starting right now, rather than back before even Rising From The Last War.

He is currently a level 12, Rogue (Thief) 6/ Wizard (Bladesinger) 6, and he absolutely wrecks face. There were some mid levels that were a little rough, especially in terms of action economy, but now that he has been rebuilt with 2024 rules and has reached level 6 Bladesinger, he is kinda insane.

But, I also wonder, what if I had built him to lean into swordfighting rather than seeking arcane power, as a response to his family being killed in a wizard duel and one of the wizards then becoming a lich.

Which got me wondering, what would the best build possible be to mechanically represent the absolute deadliest fencing duelist in the world by level 12?

The only rules other than that goal are, all official so that everyone has the same pool of stuff to work from, and some part of the build needs to make the character good at killing mages. The original character is a forest gnome, but feel free to make a rival swordfighter of a different species.

So, how would you build the world's greatest swordsman on a mission of revenge against a lich?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Obviously the current build is very good, but it leans so hard into wizardry that sometimes I do feel disconnected from that original starting concept of a rogue trying to add some magic to his arsenal to better fight a mage.

But that build in more detail is:

Dresden Nuada Diarmuid Creidne Odrhain "Darkblade" Taliesen Woodsheart o Frostburrow an Tyr Dannan.
Forest Gnome
Rogue (Thief) 6 / Wizard (Bladesinger) 6
Point Buy starting stats: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 13, Wis 12, Int 15, Cha 12 (+1 Dex, +2 Int from gnome)
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Investigation, Stealth, Performance (from bladesinger)
Background (Custom+feat): deception, Persuasion, Water Vehicles, Navigator's Tools
Feats: Mage Slayer, SKilled (Arcana, Tinker's Tools, Sleight of Hand), Speedy
Trained Proficiencies: Alchemist Supplies, Sylvan Language
Expertise: Arcana, Athletics, Acrobatics, Investigation, Stealth
Weapon Masteries: Scimitar and Hand Crossbow
Main Spells I use all the time: Booming Blade, Haste, Absorb Elements, Silvery Barbs, Misty Step, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Thunder Step, Web, Hold Person, Minor Illusion, Mirror Image, Find Familiar, and other ritual spells.

WIth Bladesong and +1 Leather Armor of Flying I don't need the Wizard defensive spells that much except Absorb Elements, though sometimes I do use Mirror Image still, if i am planning on being really up in the mix rather than using my bonus actions to dart in and out.

Speedy lets me have a speed of 50 when Bladesong is going, and with disadvantage to enemy OAs against me, I don't even use disengage or the cunning strike option that often.

Mage Slayer makes my attack actions even harder to ignore for a concentrating mage, Bladesinger's Extra Attack and the nick property means that I am doing Booming Blade, a normal hand crossbow attack, and a normal scimitar attack, as an attack action, leaving my BA free for fun. I try to make the Booming Blade attack the last one so that it benefits from Advantage from Vex (hand xbow), and if the enemy is still up I can then get away, using my BA is needed to get far enough away that they can't reach me, or using it to hide, or to cast a spell via a scroll as a thief rogue with wizard levels.

I use alchemy and tinker tools to make arrows that deliver alchemist fire, acid, a small grenade effect, etc. with my hand xbow attacks, and when there is a concentrating mage I use that to make sure that even if they escape my reach somehow while staying in thefight, they have damage incoming every round until they use an action to put the fire out. This tends to make them hate me, and want me to die, which is of course where I am happiest.

I have a Familiar that often gives someone advantage, and I have advantage often enough that I usually have them Help an ally, and then fly away to a spot where it would be inefficient for an enemy to go after them.

Overall, it is a very fun character that does way too many things per round, to the chagrin of our enemies. Not the most maximally OP build I have ever done, but very effective and fun.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Some basic ideas I had for a version of him with little or no magic.

Rogue (Swashbuckler)/fighter (Battlemaster) more rogue than fighter overall, no need to ever go past level 6 fighter, all other levels rogue, tbh stay at fighter 4 until rogue hits level 7 or so. Manuevers and Cunning Strike is a really good mix, especially taking goading attack, riposte, and either disarm or lunging. I know precision is considered the best or whatever but IMO you should be hitting often enough as a twfer with extra attack and action surge that you just do not need to spend dice on making singular attacks hit. Save it for when you do hit to do something extra, or for turning a missed enemy attack into an opportunity to do sneak attack a second time that round. This is the only one where I would maybe take magic initiate to get booming blade. Maybe. Probably not. Three attacks with scimitar and shortsword or whatever is always better than 1 Booming Blade with a Rapier, and even if you want Rapier, take Dual Weilder so you can use it and a dagger or Scimitar. I guess if you are going all in on the Rapier, with a shield and Dueling fighting style, get Booming Blade for the levels before you get level 5 fighter.

Rogue/Monk (kensei)/Ranger (Hunter) - which rogue doesn't matter that much here, even assassin with alert feat would add a sort of opening fleche move, while Thief would make you acrobatic and able to cast some ranger spells as bonus action from scrolls. Hunter Ranger is to add Collossus Slayer (or depending on the adventure and GM habits, Horde Breaker)

Monk (any)/Ranger (Hunter) - fewer skills, loses cunning strike, gets more higher level monk and ranger stuff but also spends more time doing unarmed strikes unless you go kensei.

And then of course the other magical swordfighters we all know and love like Warlock/Paladin/Bard builds of various descriptions, maybe Bladesinger/Battlesmith.

 

[Charlaquin]

Some basic ideas I had for a version of him with little or no magic.

Rogue (Swashbuckler)/fighter (Battlemaster) more rogue than fighter overall, no need to ever go past level 6 fighter, all other levels rogue, tbh stay at fighter 4 until rogue hits level 7 or so. Manuevers and Cunning Strike is a really good mix, especially taking goading attack, riposte, and either disarm or lunging. I know precision is considered the best or whatever but IMO you should be hitting often enough as a twfer with extra attack and action surge that you just do not need to spend dice on making singular attacks hit. Save it for when you do hit to do something extra, or for turning a missed enemy attack into an opportunity to do sneak attack a second time that round. This is the only one where I would maybe take magic initiate to get booming blade. Maybe. Probably not. Three attacks with scimitar and shortsword or whatever is always better than 1 Booming Blade with a Rapier, and even if you want Rapier, take Dual Weilder so you can use it and a dagger or Scimitar. I guess if you are going all in on the Rapier, with a shield and Dueling fighting style, get Booming Blade for the levels before you get level 5 fighter.

I agree with Battlemaster, but I think taking Fighter to 7 for an extra superiority die and two more maneuvers, which still gives you 5 levels of Rogue for Cunning Strike and the same number of Sneak Attack Dice as you’d have at Rogue 6 is the better way to go given your cap of 12th level.

I’d take Swashbuckler for the rogue subclass to get +Cha on Initiative and Sneak Attack more consistently. Take two weapon fighting for your fighting style, and weapon mastery with shortswords, scimitars, longswords, rapiers, and greatswords for flavor, since you want to be the ultimate sword fighter. Though by the time the build is complete you’ll probably just want to use shortsword and scimitar basically always.

For maneuvers, definitely Riposte for an extra chance at off-turn Sneak Attack. I do think Precision Attack is worth taking to make sure your Sneak Attacks land. Disarming Attack, Goading Attack, and Menacing Attack are all really good too.

You get three general feats; I would definitely spend one of those on Dual Wielder and one on Defensive Dualist. For your third you could go with Mage Slayer since that was part of the concept you wanted to go for. Or you could go with your preference of Slasher or Piercer, or just double ASI for moar statz. Lucky, Alert, or Tough are going to be the best options for origin feats if setting-specific ones aren’t available. Savage Attacker is also acceptable.