D&D General Ultimate Fencers of 5e DnD

[Charlaquin]

Overall great points.

True, that is a big boost for one level, but IMO Expertise is at least as big of a deal, and rogue level 7 is basically the best level post level 5 of any class, so I would probably try to get to that before moving any further with fighter. Either way is a strong character, though.

In general, I agree that reliable talent is a really valuable feature. It’s just that the parameters given were to make the best fencer, and an extra superiority die and two more maneuvers helps with that, while reliable talent doesn’t, 6/6 could arguably be better in the general case, but 5/7 is definitely the better fencer.

If you have dual wielder it might as well be scimitar and rapier, no?

Not with the 2024 version of dual wielder. That version lets you make an attack with a weapon (which doesn’t have to be light) as a bonus action when holding a weapon in each hand. But, the Light property allows you to make an extra attack with a Light weapon when you attack with a different Light weapon (and Nick lets you make it as part of the attack action instead of as a bonus action). That means with shortsword and scimitar you can attack once with your action (twice if you have extra attack), once with the same action using Nick, and once as a bonus action with dual wielder. Whereas with rapier and scimitar you only get to attack once as an action (twice with extra attack) and once as a bonus action. But the Nick property isn’t triggered by attacking with a rapier since it isn’t Light.

If you want to get into weapon swapping permutations, it is entirely possible to attack once with a shortsword, once with a scimitar and once with a raper (or a longsword… I think you could probably even do it with a greatsword but I’d have to double check the logic on that) by RAW. But a lot of DMs consider that “cheese” and disallow it, so I didn’t bring it up.

Swashbuckler is definitely the clearest winner for rogue. My current guy is Thief because part of his history is being an incredible acrobat, and second story work accomplishes that very very well. Having bonus action magic item use is a huge benefit too, but less story critical.
But if rebuilding him from scratch? Yeah, Swashbuckler.

Makes sense.

IMO for a TWF character with extra attack and action surge...you are going to get sneak attack every round. You don't need every hit to land. Menacing is very good and Disarming is obviously very thematic. My biggest things for BM as a fencer are Riposte and Goading, so the rest is all pretty fluid.

Fair enough. If you prefer 6/6, you only have three maneuvers to work with, so if Riposte and Goading are essential in your opinion, I’d still stand by Precision being the best option for the third, with Disarming and Menacing being the best options for a fourth and fifth if you go 5/7, or if you end up going above 12th level.

I'm not really a fan of Defensive Duelist, especially on a character that already has strong reaction abilities.

Defensive duelist is very strong in 2024 due to the AC bonus lasting until your next turn - it’s slightly weaker Shield until 13th level when it becomes actual shield, and then at 17th it actually becomes better Shield. Of course, Riposte is better if you have the Superiority die to spend, but the option is strong to have available.

And isn't Savage Attacker vastly better with heavier weapons with larger dice?

It is, which is why I said it was “acceptable” rather than including it in my top picks for an origin feat. Alert, Lucky, or Tough are definitely better options, but it can depend on what background ASIs you want/need.

For a character that is relying on sneak attack and making lots of attacks, I don't see how it could be worth a feat for that benefit.

It wouldn’t be worth a general feat, but your origin feat comes free with your background. I’d prioritize Alert, Lucky and Tough higher, but I wouldn’t be mad about Savage Attacker.

For origin feats, yeah I mean those are probably the best one from the phb. I still allow the Dragonlance backgrounds and their feats, and Strixhaven, so Knight of Solamnia might be a contender, too.

I don’t remember what those do off the top of my head, but setting-specific origin feats tend to be very good, so I believe you.

I really wish you could get a fighting style or a couple weapon masteries from an origin feat, tbh. It would make the Monk much more attractive as a single class swordfighter.

Yeah, style feats aren’t worth taking in place of a general feat, and while weapon master is a fine general feat on paper, it sucks to have to wait for 4th level to unlock your preferred weapon’s full potential. Plus, the opportunity cost is pretty steep when you could be getting something like dual wielder or grappler.

 

[Horwath]

with 2024 rules and some 2014 legacy features:
15th level elven champion fighter.
feats: Zhentarim ruffian, Elven accuracy, Zhentarim tactics, Piercer.
Just use rapier(vex)+shield, perma (super)advantage, 18+ crit
base 60% hit rate goes to 94%, crit goes to 38,6% for 3d8+7 damage