D&D 4E Un(der)served 4e Content Goldrush?

[Geoff Watson]

In another thread, I brought up Swords & Sorcery Studios' Creature Collection beating the 3e Monster Manual to market by being released the same day as the 3e PHB. I believe that this kind of thing can and will happen again with 4e's release.

Just for the sake of discussion, let's say the things we don't think will be in the initial core release actually won't be. Gnomes, bards, monks, psionics, druids - all of that stuff. Am I genuinely nuts to think that people won't be falling over each other to produce this stuff before WotC does? If some 3rd party publisher produced a monster book and psionics book on release day, wouldn't that be a huge sales opportunity?

Considering how atrocious the CC was, I think most people will be cautious about something that rushed.

Geoff.

 

[Klaus]

OTOH, the two adventures that debuted before the DMG, Fiery Dragon's "NeMoren's Vault" and Necromancer's "Crucible of Freyja", were widely regarded as the best 1st-level modules of 3.x.

Smaller brushes = more accurate portrayal.

 

[JRR_Talking]

CC stunk
NeMorens vault was very good

guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

[The Souljourner]

Because if the third party book saves me at least 3 hours worth of effort tweaking something, it was worth the cash for the free time it allowed me to keep.

See, I think of that three hours as three hours of fun I *wouldn't* get to do if I bought a third party book

-Nate

 

[Jer]

Just for the sake of discussion, let's say the things we don't think will be in the initial core release actually won't be. Gnomes, bards, monks, psionics, druids - all of that stuff. Am I genuinely nuts to think that people won't be falling over each other to produce this stuff before WotC does? If some 3rd party publisher produced a monster book and psionics book on release day, wouldn't that be a huge sales opportunity?

I think it depends - mostly on the product that they're thinking of doing.

WW's Creature Collection was considered a coup by White Wolf when 3e rolled out - until the Monster Manual came out. CC was rushed out the door and no one really knew what the rules were going to look like until the MM came out. Once the MM was available, copies of the CC that were unsold at that time just rotted on store shelves for a long time. I have no idea of whether the economics ended up giving WW a net plus or minus (I suspect they did allright with it - it did have a sequel and a cleaned-up re-release), but jumping the gun like that may not work a second time.

OTOH - if Wizards decides to wait a year or so before building some of the core races and/or classes (as is rumored for gnomes), there might be an opportunity there. A "Book of Lost Lore" that has some GOOD conversions of those missing aspects might be good for a few sales. It would have a fairly short shelf life, though - once Wizards puts the "official" version out there sales on such a book would dry up - so the publisher would have to be careful.

Psionics is even riskier than writing up missing classes and races - you're talking about an entire rules subsystem that (given the history of the game) we can all be fairly certain someone at Wizards is thinking about doing. You might have some die-hard psionics fans pick it up, but others are just going to wait to see the "official" version. And when the "official" version came out, again you'd better hope you guessed your print run size correctly because you're going to be stuck with the leftovers.

Third party publishers have it tough with 4e, I think. They have to play quite a bit of "guess which direction the 800 lb. gorilla is going to move" with their product decisions. When 3e came out, Wizards telegraphed their forward direction quite a bit - they were going to focus on rules-oriented products, reduce supported campaign settings down to one (FR), and put out a limited number of adventures to support the game. Third party publishers were given an opportunity to fill demand for niche campaign settings, adventures, and even some cruchy rules systems that it was fairly clear that Wizards didn't consider "core". After 3.5e, Wizards changed direction on what they were going to be putting out for the game. Now, it's hard to tell from their statements for 4e where they're going to be going and what niches are going to be ignored enough for a third party publisher to settle in and cater to an "ignored" fanbase.

 

[Xyxox]

Green Ronin and Malhavoc aren't third party?

How does the second half of that sentence follow from the first?

Because I stick to core. I even rarely add anything other than core unless I created it. the Complete Super Cool Awesome Book of Clompleteness for Grognards has no place on my game shelf. I've picked up some things, but I'm extremely picky. I think I've purchased a total of twelve books since the release of 3E. If I'm that picky about WotC products, it logically follows that I won't even consider a third party product.

That form of thinking went back to the original Core Rules CD-ROM which was precisely that, the Core rules. After seeing that approach, and running a strictly core campaign, I found all the other junk is not worth it. When you add the market saturation of d20 material after 3E, and it becomes pretty clear why I won't even look at anything for D&D that doesn't carry the WotC branding.

 

[Umbran]

Am I genuinely nuts to think that people won't be falling over each other to produce this stuff before WotC does? If some 3rd party publisher produced a monster book and psionics book on release day, wouldn't that be a huge sales opportunity?

I wouldn't doubt that someone will try it. However, I think there is a very great chance that such a product would... not be particularly good. It takes time and observation to truly master a rule-set well enough to design for it, and the third party publishers will not have had access to the rules long enough to develop that mastery.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I think it can be done and done properly. Part of the problem I think with the CC is that there wern't realy 3rd party producers who knew what they were doing yet. Since then there are now many companies used to working within the OGL and knowing what works and what doesn't as well as how large print runs should be. It may take a couple months after the PHB comes out but books on Gnomes, Monks, Bards, Psionics will all be out well before the PHBII. How soon they come out depends of how early the companies are given access to the SRD info.

 

[JustinA]

OTOH, the two adventures that debuted before the DMG, Fiery Dragon's "NeMoren's Vault" and Necromancer's "Crucible of Freyja", were widely regarded as the best 1st-level modules of 3.x.

Death in Freeport (Green Ronin) and Three Days to Kill (Penumbra) were both released at GenCon on the same day as the PHB. They remain two of the best 3.x modules released.

However, Crucible of Freya was not released until November or December of 2000 (after the core rulebooks were all published). You may be thinking of the free PDF of "The Wizard's Amulet" which Necromancer released in, IIRC, September.

In another thread, I brought up Swords & Sorcery Studios' Creature Collection beating the 3e Monster Manual to market by being released the same day as the 3e PHB.

This is not correct, either. I was at GenCon that year. The Creature Collection had not been released. It beat the MM to market, but it was not released the same day as the PHB.

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If I'm that picky about WotC products, it logically follows that I won't even consider a third party product.

No, it doesn't. Monte Cook's stuff is third party. So is a lot of stuff by Mike Mearls, Wolfgang Bauer and Ari Marmell. It doesn't "logically follow" that you throw out third party material as a category, just because you prefer WotC stuff, since past, present and WotC developers and designers are almost all producing third party stuff.

When you add the market saturation of d20 material after 3E, and it becomes pretty clear why I won't even look at anything for D&D that doesn't carry the WotC branding.

Again, this doesn't follow at all.

If this weren't the Internet age, where it's easy to get reviews of what the good material is, you might have a point, but 3E debuted during the Internet era.

The decision to not use third party stuff isn't a logical result of people being unable to figure out what's good or bad without plunking down cash. It's an emotion-based choice.