Unbalanced Characters/ToB?

[WayneLigon]

Was the DM aware of how TOB maneuvers work, or was he letting the player tell him how his abilities worked? If the latter it sounds like the player was not all that aware of how his stuff worked, especially if you were in long combats with no rest - Not knowing, I hesitate to call him a cheater simply because the manuevers are complex and require a person to really sit down and read how they operate instead of a quick skim to see the damage and such. Overlooking 'last line' restrictions or notations on how a power works makes many of the ToB abilities more powerful than they really are.

 

[Darkwolf445]

Was the DM aware of how TOB maneuvers work, or was he letting the player tell him how his abilities worked? If the latter it sounds like the player was not all that aware of how his stuff worked, especially if you were in long combats with no rest - Not knowing, I hesitate to call him a cheater simply because the manuevers are complex and require a person to really sit down and read how they operate instead of a quick skim to see the damage and such. Overlooking 'last line' restrictions or notations on how a power works makes many of the ToB abilities more powerful than they really are.

The Dm was relying on the characters knowing how their stuff worked. As it was a local gamestore and he did not preview any characters, I guess that it what happens. The three of us who were experienced showed up and rolled hit points when we arrived, whereas this character did not, but that may not be a standard procedure (?). There were a lot of, "Immediate Actions," to renew a manuever and such, but without reading the book I cannot call BS on that. So, I either read the book or I deal with it. Or I let the DM deal with it or not.

I was just curious, as it made for a dreary kind of game.

 

[Deekin]

The Dm was relying on the characters knowing how their stuff worked. As it was a local gamestore and he did not preview any characters, I guess that it what happens. The three of us who were experienced showed up and rolled hit points when we arrived, whereas this character did not, but that may not be a standard procedure (?). There were a lot of, "Immediate Actions," to renew a manuever and such, but without reading the book I cannot call BS on that. So, I either read the book or I deal with it. Or I let the DM deal with it or not.

I was just curious, as it made for a dreary kind of game.

Warblade Take a standered + Swift to renew all there maneuvers.

This is at a gameing shop right? Go grab a ToB of the shelf and ask the guy to show you what maneuvers he is using.

 

[Mort]

I am pretty sure we were looking at multiple attacks each round where 4 or 6 d6 were being rolled.

was he two-weapon fighting? If so, simply 2 short swords + punishing stance + rapid assault means lots of d6's (for the first round 3 attacks 3d6 each, for follow up rounds 3 attacks that do 2d6 each) of course that's hardly unbalancing. Otherwise I see no strikes (available to a warblade) of 4th level or lower that add multiple d6 AND allow a full attack.

 

[WayneLigon]

Normally a ToB maneuver needs a full-round action to recover a single maneuver. Because they get so few maneuvers (Warblades at 9th - which I'm assuming he is, going to that module - only get to ready one more ability than they did at 1st), Warblades can indeed recover every single expended maneuver every round as a swift action, however he can only make a normal melee attack or do nothing that same round; he can't change a stance or initiate another maneuver.

If he's blowing through DR, he's probably using Mountain Hammer or (if he's tenth) probably Elder Mountain Hammer; both those ignore hardness and DR. Now, I don't know anything about the Demonweb Pits, but those maneuvers are from the Stone Dragon school and all of those suffer from one small 'last line' caveat; the user has to be standing on the ground to use them. I'd take that as 'earth and stone', so there are lots of places he's just not going to be able to use that power. If he's on shipboard? No luck. In a big spiderweb? No luck. On a wooden floor? No luck.

 

[Darkwolf445]

Normally a ToB maneuver needs a full-round action to recover a single maneuver. Because they get so few maneuvers (Warblades at 9th - which I'm assuming he is, going to that module - only get to ready one more ability than they did at 1st), Warblades can indeed recover every single expended maneuver every round as a swift action, however he can only make a normal melee attack or do nothing that same round; he can't change a stance or initiate another maneuver.

If he's blowing through DR, he's probably using Mountain Hammer or (if he's tenth) probably Elder Mountain Hammer; both those ignore hardness and DR. Now, I don't know anything about the Demonweb Pits, but those maneuvers are from the Stone Dragon school and all of those suffer from one small 'last line' caveat; the user has to be standing on the ground to use them. I'd take that as 'earth and stone', so there are lots of places he's just not going to be able to use that power. If he's on shipboard? No luck. In a big spiderweb? No luck. On a wooden floor? No luck.

We actually started at level 8.

The maneuver would be executed, then an immediate/swift action to renew in the same round. Mountain Hammer sounds familiar. So far, yes there are lots of stone/earth floors.

As to another poster, he was using a greatsword, not two weapons.

 

[Darkwolf445]

was he two-weapon fighting? If so, simply 2 short swords + punishing stance + rapid assault means lots of d6's (for the first round 3 attacks 3d6 each, for follow up rounds 3 attacks that do 2d6 each) of course that's hardly unbalancing. Otherwise I see no strikes (available to a warblade) of 4th level or lower that add multiple d6 AND allow a full attack.

Exactly, not unbalancing. I could've enlarged the half orc fighter or myself and received similar damage (Domains were Strength and War), or better with Divine Power/enlarged/etc..

 

[Someone]

There was a recent thread discussing what 'ground' means in the rules. It turns that when you are disarmed your weapon falls to the 'ground', when you are tripped you fall to the 'ground', etc. It's IMO clear that 'ground' meand 'stable, roughly horizontal supporting surface'.

The warblade class don't come with extra luck, and looks like theplayer was doing some things wrong. But it's true that the warblade (and ToB classes in general) are more powerful than regular melee classes, and some maneuvers are outright unbalancing.

 

[Nifft]

It really sounds like he's abusing the DM's ignorance, rather than actually playing a Warblade.

Cheers, -- N

 

[blargney the second]

Yeah, he's cheating big time.
-blarg