Unbalanced Player Characters?

[mythusmage]

Jurgen, if your players want that stuff, then they can live with the consequences. To borrow a Hero term, when you're playing a 5,000 point character the whole world is a dependent NPC.

"Yes, you have infravision. Which means you are dazzled by the heat given off by the flare."

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

This party need not be boring at all, but in fact one plot thread strikes me immediately - three of the party have extraplanar origins! It strikes me that they are on Faerun for a purpose - someone put the wheels in motion that caused these three to be born - Perhaps the unknown entity that arranged for a celestial to pair with a human, and who arranged a djinni to pair with another human, also caused the death of the human who would one day become an Elan!!!

Interesting, but the player of the aasimar already came up with a very convoluted backstory that hints that one of his distant ancestors was possibly Selune - and She accepted him as a druid as well.

Well, I like it when the players come up with backstories - read: "plot hooks" of their own, so I will use it. It's not like he gets any in-game bonuses from such a background.

Though I could imagine some mad nutter in Waterdeep freaking out when he sees them, follow them around and shout: "Your meeting was destined!" at embarrassing moments...

 

[Thanee]

Shifters get more they can change into over polymorph, they get the feats of the creature they change into and they do not get the type. Their mental stats are unchanged and retain all extrordinary abilities (but lose Supernatural and spell like abilities).

Isn't it simply the same as Wildshape and thus as Polymorph?

I mean sure, in 3.0 that worked different, but in 3.5 it should inherit all the changes, since it is based on Wildshape, or not? At least I can't find a hint in the ability description, that it would work any different there.


But, anyways, how does that compare to ten levels of spellcasting ability, which they give up for the mere ability to be slightly (?) better than a single spell?

Ok, at 10th Shifter level Greater Wildshape is a lot better than Polymorph, but then you are within the realms of Shapeshift already. And the ability to obtain supernatural abilities is pretty major.

I really can't see how they are such a big problem, beyond that what Polymorph already is (and that it is a given, that they will use that a lot, since they can't do anything else).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I've just learned that the player of the Swashbuckler wants to take the Dervish prestige class as soon as possible.

Should I be worried?

 

[coyote6]

A player recently started a new character IMC -- an unfettered/dervish. Only one adventure so far, but the character wasn't overpowering.

(Of course, the dervish replaced a classic greatsword-wielding half-orc barbarian/fighter that dealt and took massive amounts of damage -- so maybe my perspective is skewed, by my relief that a villain might be expected to survive a full attack. )

 

[ruleslawyer]

The dervish makes TWF with light weapons an actually playable concept, so no, IMHO it isn't unbalanced.

To be honest, I'd be more worried about this party being underpowered than overpowered. AFAICT, the halfling cleric is going to be the most powerful PC in the party, easily.

The Elan: A multiclassed psion/psywarr? That's like a sorcerer/hexblade; non-stacking primary and secondary spellcasting power. It's nearly as bad as a sorcerer/wizard. Heck, at least if he had gone psion/wizard he could have taken the cerebremancer class...

The Genasi: +1 level adjustment for good stats (and +2 Dex/Int for -2 Wis/Cha are VERY good stats for a swashbuckler) is a fair tradeoff, IMHO; especially given that the PC in question is forfeiting +1 BAB, 1 Hit Die, and a level's worth of save bonus progression and class features. Worse still, this guy is forced into the role of the primary party fighter. A 2nd-level fighter who can't take more than a single blow is more a liability than an asset, IMHO.

The Aasimar: NO published race is worth losing a level of druid. None. Period. The class is simply too good to give up levels. Delayed access to spellcasting? Weaker animal companion? Reduced wildshape progression? No way. Think about it this way: Your player could have taken a level of monk instead of the aasimar and gotten 8 hit points, +2 to ALL saves, evasion, stunning fist, and Wisdom bonus to AC (!) instead of a piddling +2 to Wis and Cha and some energy resistances.

As to the character choice: The shifter is really a 3.0 class, and difficult to use (NOT overpowered, just difficult) in a 3.5 game. Assuming that the shifter's ability works just like wildshape (which, incidentally, does NOT grant feats EXCEPT for elemental wildshape), your aasimar will be able to assume his first really useful form around 8th level, for Drd5/Shf3 (ECL 9), where Large and plant forms become possible. At this same ECL, his druid counterpart will be slinging around 5th-level spells (including the ever-scary animal growth) and have access to brown bear wildshape form, which is about as good as a druid needs in conjunction with Natural Spell. To add insult to injury, your aasimar could have gone with wizard or sorcerer, acquired polymorph by 7th level (ECL 8), and turned himself into a spellcasting hound archon AND had good spellcasting ability.

In summary, it sounds like your players are just trying to roleplay interesting character concepts. I'd congratulate them rather than worry too much...

 

[Darklone]

Don't underestimate the Psywar/psion. He has more powerpoints which he can use for his powers and wisely chosen level 1 psywar powers can be horribly useful... the psywars only problem is his lack of PPs, which he can lessen with psion levels.

Right about the Genasi Swashbuckler, he will always lack hitpoints... but his damage output will be pretty nice. Especially if he multiclasses a little bit more till he takes dervish (Ftr4 with WS comes to mind).

The only balance problems I see with dervishs now and then are related to twohanded slashing weapons (greatsword/falchion with to hit bonuses, Power Attack and full attack actions while moving)... which does not seem to be a problem for this one starting as Swashbuckler.

 

[Merlion]

Yep personally I would say the only one you might have to worry about is the Cleric, which is in fact a mildly overpowered class.

Shifter as Ruleslawayer said could be problematic, but is not neccesarilly unbalanced.

Psionics, to me (not mental powers but "psionics" as D&D has them) dont fit well into regular fantasy, but I dont think any of it is going to hurt balance.

The swashbuckler is a fine class, although it does get more in some ways than the Fighter, but thats a problem with the Fighter. I dont remember all the details of the Dervish but it seemed fine to me as well when I looked at it.

In my game (if it survives any further due to scheduling issues that is) I am allowing the various basic planetouched (genasai, aasimar, tieflings) without even having the level adjustment since to me they arent drastically stronger than a 3.5 gnome or dwarf

I see no reason why people cannot stick to core. Their is no reason to be Genasi this or half-whatits that.

Ummm....except that they want to be? That they want some variety? That it fits the type of character that they want to play? That they are tired of elves and humans and dwarves?

I see no reason why some people insist on sticking to "core". The idea of "core" is nice for d20 publishers to have something to base things on, and it works as a deccent common ground for discussing balance (since trying to discuss all the possible variables of balance if this or that other thing is included would just be impossible) but for me in terms of actual play, there is no "core".


And as someone has already mentioned...in the Forgotten Realms setting, Genasai, Drow, Aaismar, Tieflings and Deep Gnomes are in fact "core".

 

[Spatula]

Don't underestimate the Psywar/psion. He has more powerpoints which he can use for his powers and wisely chosen level 1 psywar powers can be horribly useful... the psywars only problem is his lack of PPs, which he can lessen with psion levels.

If the character is truly one taking one level of psywar, he's not getting much out of it, in terms of powers or points: one power (that can't be augmented) and 0 power points (+any bonus points from Wisdom).

Though he does get martial weapons, armor, shields, and a bonus feat. So it's not a total loss.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Interesting, but the player of the aasimar already came up with a very convoluted backstory that hints that one of his distant ancestors was possibly Selune - and She accepted him as a druid as well.

If you want to get really technical, this combination is illegal. Druids can't take Selune as a patron (which, IMHO, is stupid). Faiths and Pantheons has a complete list of nature deities, and clearly states that druids and rangers MUST take one of these deities as their patron (because other deities can't grant nature spells).

On the other hand, the very same book also talks about many Rangers taking the Windwalker prestige class, which is also illegal, since Shaundakul can't grant nature spells either. Even a multiclassed Ranger would need to worship a nature deity to gain spells, thus the Windwalker requirements of "casting divine spells" and "worshipper of Shaundakul" are directly contradictory for the Ranger. Shaundakul is supposed to be a patron of Rangers, but he's left off the nature deity list (and thus, any Rangers worshipping him must be the foolish ones, who lack the Wisdom to cast spells or to select another deity). So it seems to me that the "complete" list is not complete, and I'd add Shaundakul and Selune.