D&D 5E Unconscious PC's and smart monsters

[Imaculata]

In the real world, soldiers don't typically go around executing unconscious people while enemy soldiers are shooting at them. It's illogical.

In the real world we don't have healing magic, but in D&D we do. A pc that is downed, can easily be helped back up by their party (and really quick too in 5e). In the real world, soldiers do on occasion make sure that enemies are actually dead. They may fire an extra shot just to be sure, so they don't get shot in the back.

 

[Oofta]

So two strikes on the Death Save tracker, assuming they don't manage to miss despite having Advantage. This works well if the PC is already one strike down, but is almost a non-threat if they aren't.

Assumes the other PCs know about death saves and that the players know how many have been failed.

I kind of prefer the old coupe-de-grace from 3.5 but this doesn't come up in my game often enough to make it a house rule.

More than 30' is my point though - at that point you're not dragging dramatically, you're just taking the body and fleeing in a cartoonish way. The LOS-break issue is unlikely to be a major one unless you do the ol' cartoon sprint. And the most likely end to the scenario, regardless of other factors, is Healing Word (or similar) being cast on the PC who then immediately gets up and thumps the monster (or casts a spell or whatever).

There's just some things D&D isn't very good at handling.

All the monster has to do is drag the PC out of sight. There are plenty of monsters (especially ones that fly) that could get the PC out of range. I allow monsters 1 size larger or more to pick up unconscious NPCs as a non-action so all it takes is a double move to get out of range.

It also assumes healing word is available.

I do it now and then in my game. I have yet to kill a PC because of it, but that's not the point.

 

[Fanaelialae]

In the real world we don't have healing magic, but in D&D we do. A pc that is downed, can easily be helped back up by their party (and its really quick too in 5e). In the real world, soldiers do on occasion make sure that enemies are actually dead. They may fire an extra shot just to be sure, so they don't get shot in the back.

While they or their team are being actively shot at? I don't think so. Admittedly, I'm not a soldier myself, but wasting time shooting guys that are dead or as good as dead seems like a prime way to end up dead yourself if there are hostile shooters still present and active.

If healing magic is so prevalent that you're dealing with it regularly, then it's something you might want to consider. Even then, burning down the healer is the smarter option. Revivify means that even a dead opponent won't necessarily stay dead. No healer virtually guarantees that an unconscious opponent will remain that way.

 

[Oofta]

While they or their team are being actively shot at? I don't think so. Admittedly, I'm not a soldier myself, but wasting time shooting guys that are dead or as good as dead seems like a prime way to end up dead yourself if there are hostile shooters still present and active.

If healing magic is so prevalent that you're dealing with it regularly, then it's something you might want to consider. Even then, burning down the healer is the smarter option. Revivify means that even a dead opponent won't necessarily stay dead. No healer virtually guarantees that an unconscious opponent will remain that way.

You've never seen Zombieland? Rule #1: Double tap!

 

[Umbran]

I think an intelligent NPC will grab the PC and negotiate their lives by taking them hostage.

So, two things:

1) In the middle of a fight is not the time to really expect the most rational of actions - armies train relentlessly to overcome the fact that thinking on the battlefield is not necessarily your best bet. Your information is limited, and you have very little time. In the real world, adrenaline actually a reduces human's ability to think logically.

2) This is a very metagame tactic - it relies on how the PCs are assumed to be a group that would actually want to save each other's lives beyond current tactical needs. The GM knows this, but the NPC doesn't. The PCs could be a bunch of hired mercenary thugs who don't really care about one another. If that's the case, this tactic makes you a sitting duck.

 

[Asisreo]

So, two things:

1) In the middle of a fight is not the time to really expect the most rational of actions - armies train relentlessly to overcome the fact that thinking on the battlefield is not necessarily your best bet. Your information is limited, and you have very little time. In the real world, adrenaline actually a reduces human's ability to think logically.

2) This is a very metagame tactic - it relies on how the PCs are assumed to be a group that would actually want to save each other's lives beyond current tactical needs. The GM knows this, but the NPC doesn't. The PCs could be a bunch of hired mercenary thugs who don't really care about one another. If that's the case, this tactic makes you a sitting duck.

I'm not saying that this tactic is the smartest move in any situation but when someone's own life is on the line, they'll come up with some way to stop their blood.

I don't think it's metagamey, either. The NPC wouldn't be entirely sure but if they're walking together, there's almost certainly some form of relationship between them. Could be friends, family, business. You don't typically walk around with complete strangers you pick up in a forest and nobody knows anyone.

The sitting ducks thing is honestly what makes this even better. He's desperate. He knows he has no choice but to take the gamble and if he sees them hesitate, he feels cocky about it. If he's a bandit, let him put himself at risk foolishly thinking the party won't kill him or the hostage. Maybe even have him ask for gold in exchange. If he's the BBEG, have him immediately try to escape, preferably with the hostage.

This turns D&D from "a downed PC is only a step to a TPK" to "a downed PC is a roleplay opportunity and a serious problem for the players."

 

[billd91]

So two strikes on the Death Save tracker, assuming they don't manage to miss despite having Advantage. This works well if the PC is already one strike down, but is almost a non-threat if they aren't.

Honestly, 2 strikes down the death save tracker is almost certainly going to put the player on edge. It means that his next death save could be it. His margin of time and ability to recover from a single bad roll has been taken away.

 

[Umbran]

I don't think it's metagamey, either. The NPC wouldn't be entirely sure but if they're walking together, there's almost certainly some form of relationship between them. Could be friends, family, business. You don't typically walk around with complete strangers you pick up in a forest and nobody knows anyone.

Well, what kind of person is the NPC? Aren't they probably a hired thug without any great attachment to the other NPCs? Why would they assume that the PCs are dissimilar?

Turn this around. If the PCs downed and then an NPC, would Lord Badguy McCultleader bargain for the NPC's life? Or even the leader of the the troop of guards? Or the bandit squad leader?

Note: a great many of the "adventurers" out there probably are mercenary thugs for hire. Your PCs are in a game, and need to put some value on the lives of the other PCs to support the overall fun in the game. But the fictional world they live in is high on violence, low on value-of-life, in general.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Honestly, 2 strikes down the death save tracker is almost certainly going to put the player on edge. It means that his next death save could be it. His margin of time and ability to recover from a single bad roll has been taken away.

I definitely agree, but when the NPC does that, the NPC is toast, and he probably knows it. They are definitely 100% going to die, probably well inside the next round, because the other PCs are going to absolutely hit them with everything they've got. And the PC in question will probably get hit with Healing Word, so will be back up, on 0 Death Saves (because they auto-reset to 0 when you get up, so even if you get downed immediately again, you're back on 0 saves failed)

This is what I think on GitP they refer to as the "Yoyo", which is very much part of 5E RAW.

Really the only way the players manage to get the PC killed is either:

A) He has 1 death save failed from his current 0 HP status.

or

B) The players manage to do this at the worst possible initiative order, so that a PC causes the NPC to react by the PC's actions, and those actions aren't casting Healing Word or similar, aaaaaaaaand the NPC is also the next person on the initiative order. Given how readying works this would likely mean several PCs has skipped their go or done nothing to annoy the NPC.

In fact, casting Healing Word breaks this entire scenario unless the PC is a death save down!!!

Here's what happens:

0) NPC has PC on 0 HP held, and readies an action to make an attack if the other PCs take any actions or move towards him.

1) The Cleric says "I cast Healing Word..."

2) The NPC gets his readied attack as a Reaction to that, so before it goes off, stabs the PC, who auto-fails 2 death saves. OH NO!

3) The PC gets healed for 1d6+WIS (or whatever) and is back on say, 7 HP, and has ZERO failed death saves.

Even if the NPC clobbers the PC (unlikely because everyone will blow everything to nail him), he's back on 0 HP and 0 failed death saves. And the NPC no longer has a hostage.

Even if the DM says the Healing Word lands before the stab (not a viable interpretation RAW), the NPC stabs the PC down to 0 HP and 0 failed death saves, rather than two failed death saves, so is now in trouble. Kind of the smartest thing for the NPC to do, perversely, is stab the PC immediately, so he's on two failed death saves, then stabilize him (nothing says you can't stabilize enemies!), then threaten him. That's a bit more reliable.


What have we learned here? Healing Word is a very troublesome spell, as literally any spell that can deliver at least 1HP of healing at a distance!

 

[Oofta]

If it really bothers you, add a house rule that you don't reset death saves until you've had a short rest. Or have a different NPC hit the PC first or implement some variation of coupe de grace ... well there are a lot of ways of dealing with it.

As far as NPC dying at 0 that's totally up to the DM. Normally they die at 0 HP because it's easier. If there's an enemy healer, especially one that can heal at range, I follow the same rules for team monster as team PC.

But it's not like the PCs (or NPCs) know what death saves are.