Ulorian - Agent of Chaos
Legend
Based on this thread's title, I came in expecting some sort of 'adult' Story Hour, perhaps of the Choose Your Own Adventure variety. I am very disappointed!
Unconscious Ranger - What does the Beast do?
- Thread starter Zoombaba
- Start date
Old Gumphrey
First Post
Hmm. Well on my post I wasn't talking about allowing a charge with a vertical jump. I meant that you can jump as part of a charge at no penalty, because you're moving. I was just trying to add some weight to my stance, using examples of leaping attacks in the game.
The OA rules also state that you can't take one on an opponent that shifts, teleports, or is forced to move by push, pull, or slide. I realize falling isn't specifically a push, pull, or slide, but I'd heavily argue that gravity is forced movement.
So what, it just cuts its jump short after 5 feet? If it lands in the same square it left, and isn't off flying around, I don't see how you can rule it any other way. Plus it's not like this situation is coming up every game, or even every level. It's spiders on a relatively low ceiling crawling around a dying ranger whose specific cat pet is near him. Let the frigging thing do a leaping maul.
Would you let it leave its square if it was hit with forced movement?
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Come. On.
Do we really need to explain how forced movement differs from voluntary behavior? Do I really need to tell you that, if it were forced somewhere "not adjacent", it would do its best to get back adjacent?
The justification for the beast doing anything at all was: it's defending its master. If it's supposed to remain adjacent to its master, then moving 2 squares away (and then hopefully 2 squares back) is hardly in the spirit of the thing's motivation. You're trying to confuse "staying adjacent" with "hopefully ending its turn adjacent" just so you can pervert the intent of a rather generous ruling.
Look, nobody else gets to attack while dead. This pet thing is a special favor. Don't try to force charity.
-- N
Miphon
First Post
Except it's not a special favor, it's a feature of the Beastmastery Ranger that the pet can act independently if the Ranger is unconscious.
"A beast companion acting independently can take a standard action, a move action, and a minor action on each of its turns, as a character can. You choose the beast’s actions, with one restriction: If your character is present in the encounter but incapable of commanding the beast, it must move as far as it can toward you each round on its turn, choosing the safest route possible. Once adjacent to you, the beast companion can act in any manner you wish."
There is the proviso "it must move as far as it can toward you each round on its turn", but I don't really see a problem with allowing it to make a jumping attack as long as it is still adjacent to the Ranger at the end of its turn as that follows the spirit of the "once adjacent to you, the beast companion can act in any manner you wish." part of the text.
How a DM handles the mechanics of such an attack is up to them, but I would think that attempting to make a standing jump of that height would be difficult enough by itself to not worry too much about imposing additional penalties.
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On Puget Sound
First Post
My beast companion will be a kangaroo.
Seems to be some confusion here --
The ranger's player wanted the cat to jump-attack when the ranger was conscious. No issues of "no jump attack while unconscious."
When the ranger was unconscious, the player wanted the cat to run halfway across the room and make an attack. The confusing part of the rules is, does the beast have to remain adjacent to the ranger? Or does the cat only have to move to the character, then run across the room to do its actions?
My impression from the session the other night (the first night this ranger build came up) the cool things about ranger beastmaster is: always have combat advantage, some powers allow multiple attacks, and you get to have someone defend your corpse when you are down. That seem like significant cool stuff to do, without overshadowing the other players.
The player wanted to do a whole host of other things (which basically was I have two characters now, one with super-leap ability) that I think was a bit much.
The ranger's player wanted the cat to jump-attack when the ranger was conscious. No issues of "no jump attack while unconscious."
When the ranger was unconscious, the player wanted the cat to run halfway across the room and make an attack. The confusing part of the rules is, does the beast have to remain adjacent to the ranger? Or does the cat only have to move to the character, then run across the room to do its actions?
My impression from the session the other night (the first night this ranger build came up) the cool things about ranger beastmaster is: always have combat advantage, some powers allow multiple attacks, and you get to have someone defend your corpse when you are down. That seem like significant cool stuff to do, without overshadowing the other players.
The player wanted to do a whole host of other things (which basically was I have two characters now, one with super-leap ability) that I think was a bit much.
Storminator
First Post
I would say that once the beast is adjacent, it must end all its turns adjacent. I get this from the "must move closer..." language. I would have no problem letting the beast roam away, as long as it ends its turn back at the PC. That makes it's actions extremely limited. It can move away, take a minor action and move back, or move away and then charge back, or charge away and blow an action point to move back.
PS
PS
fissionessence
First Post
jbear
First Post
In my interpretation, the Beast can "ACT NORMALLY" once adjacent to the unconscious/dead PC. It can move, attack and perform a minor action. So, it could drink a potion, charge and attack an enemy within range of the charge (Joking about the potion 
). On it's next round it is obliged to return to it's masters side. Then it's free to act normally again.
The beauty of the Beast Companion for me is the fact the ranger's prey can key off it. I've 'tuned' my wife's archer ranger to have a beast companion. She has a Great Bow and always stays so far out of combat she hardly ever uses the Mobility Feat or Prime Shot. Now her beast can get in close to the squishies in the back line, mark them as prey and just cause general nuisance with positioning and OA or set up flanks with martial characters... but that's off topic.
As to allowing the Jump Attack. Seems like the perfect opportunity for DMG Stunt rules. I would call it as a heavy paw swat that causes the spider to fall prone and take 1d10 falling dmg. Athletics check required to get high enough to make the attack. Acrobatics check required (probably medium or easy) to make sure the cat lands safely. Too cool to penalise with OA from monsters. Seems totally legal, there is nothing in the companion rules that explicitly states once at its fallen masters side it must remain there. on the contrary, it states once there it can act normally. It just has to return there straight away after that action.
As far as allowing the beast to act when the PC is down... that is not a favour you are doing the PC. It's part of the rules. As far as the PC trying to use his pet creatively, or pushing, bending at the 'explicit rules' or stated powers of the beast...
the beast has the same skills as everyone keyed off its stats. Some are trained, some aren't. Just deal with the situation the same way as if it was the PC attempting the same thing.
Don't be threatened by it. make the most of it. One of the guidelines (one of the best IMHO) of the DMG is to say 'yes', moving away from the 'no you can't do that, it's not in the rules' mentality. Would you limit the creative use of the Druid's Shapechanging ability just because they attempt to leave the little box of 'official powers' ?
). On it's next round it is obliged to return to it's masters side. Then it's free to act normally again.The beauty of the Beast Companion for me is the fact the ranger's prey can key off it. I've 'tuned' my wife's archer ranger to have a beast companion. She has a Great Bow and always stays so far out of combat she hardly ever uses the Mobility Feat or Prime Shot. Now her beast can get in close to the squishies in the back line, mark them as prey and just cause general nuisance with positioning and OA or set up flanks with martial characters... but that's off topic.
As to allowing the Jump Attack. Seems like the perfect opportunity for DMG Stunt rules. I would call it as a heavy paw swat that causes the spider to fall prone and take 1d10 falling dmg. Athletics check required to get high enough to make the attack. Acrobatics check required (probably medium or easy) to make sure the cat lands safely. Too cool to penalise with OA from monsters. Seems totally legal, there is nothing in the companion rules that explicitly states once at its fallen masters side it must remain there. on the contrary, it states once there it can act normally. It just has to return there straight away after that action.
As far as allowing the beast to act when the PC is down... that is not a favour you are doing the PC. It's part of the rules. As far as the PC trying to use his pet creatively, or pushing, bending at the 'explicit rules' or stated powers of the beast...
the beast has the same skills as everyone keyed off its stats. Some are trained, some aren't. Just deal with the situation the same way as if it was the PC attempting the same thing.
Don't be threatened by it. make the most of it. One of the guidelines (one of the best IMHO) of the DMG is to say 'yes', moving away from the 'no you can't do that, it's not in the rules' mentality. Would you limit the creative use of the Druid's Shapechanging ability just because they attempt to leave the little box of 'official powers' ?
IanB
First Post
Yes, the beast companion can leave the ranger's side. It has to come back again first thing next round before it can do anything else, but it can certainly charge someone in range once it has moved adjacent to the ranger. If the intent was that it had to remain adjacent to the ranger at all times the text would say that, and not 'act normally'.
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