Undead advancement, WTF?

[Caspian Marqine]

Hey, I've been messing around with advancing some Undead for my IK party to face, and I'm having some problems with it. Namely it seems rather difficult to advance the HD and increase size. This results in a reasonable attack bonus and an insane damage capability with mediocre hitpoints. What's up with this? Are undead just supposed to be mooks for the party to fight?



Jonathan

 

[Lord Morte]

Are undead just supposed to be mooks for the party to fight?

Yes. The more intelligent ones can be great masterminds and long-term baddies, but the general mass have such a narrow focus to their existence that what else would you use them for?

Also, keep in mind things such as DR and incorporeality that improve the survivalability of undead, and try rolling the hit points. d12 have the potential to be very not mediocre.

 

[Caspian Marqine]

Ah, righty

Well at this point I'm probably just gonna fudge the numbers so they come out about right. Thing is I'm looking for one thing that'll make for a decent encounter for one of the characters (as a one on one versus) and a couple of other ones as a challange for the rest of the party, and the Large sized combat machine who will be leading them. The goal is to not kill the one on one guy who has a bad AC right now (AC 15, -1 from dex, wearing a breastplate) while scaring the living daylights out of the other part of the party who seem to be able to handle themselves for the most part.

Just irritated Though the Iron Kingdoms undead who I'm using as a base are sweet. Multiple HD skeletons, who'd have thought it.



Jonathan

 

[Scion]

Desecrated areas definately help a great deal. Created undead there have bonus hp and while they are in the area there are some pretty major bonuses.

 

[Alzrius]

Well at this point I'm probably just gonna fudge the numbers so they come out about right.

WotC seems to have started to try and fix this, a lot of the undead in Libris Mortis have the Unholy Toughness (Ex) special quality. Basically, this gives an undead bonus hit points equal to its Charisma bonus multipld by its hit dice/levels...in other words, acting just like the Constitution bonus they are otherwise denied. Try giving your undead that.

 

[Scion]

WotC seems to have started to try and fix this, a lot of the undead in Libris Mortis have the Unholy Toughness (Ex) special quality. Basically, this gives an undead bonus hit points equal to its Charisma bonus multipld by its hit dice/levels...in other words, acting just like the Constitution bonus they are otherwise denied. Try giving your undead that.

It doesnt help quite a few types of undead, such as skeletons:

SRD:
Abilities: A skeleton’s Dexterity increases by +2, it has no Constitution or Intelligence score, its Wisdom changes to 10, and its Charisma changes to 1.

Unless you really like skeletons not having any hp

 

[Caspian Marqine]

Hmm, maybe taking hints from constructs

There was something for constructs that gave them extra HD for their size category, I think mediums got either 5 or 10, I think I may go that route.


Jonathan

 

[Shin Okada]

The user of Corpsecrafter feat (LM) can make undeads which has +2 hp per HD.
Undead monsters created within desecrated area (with permanent shrine or alter) has +2 hp per HD.
Then undead monsters can take Improved Toughness feat.

Now, in total, +5 hp per HD.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Keep in mind that undead need 6+ HD to qualify for Imp. Toughness, unless they're templated fighters or similar. I think bane thralls and skarlocks are both 5 or less, though.

 

[Lord Morte]

If I understand you, you're after two encounters. Ramp up the number of monsters against the highly capable part of the party and you should be right. Try the whole 'zombie swarm' approach.