Undead Master (AD&D) to 5e: Conversion possible?

[QuietBrowser]

I've always had a huge soft spot for necromancers in D&D, have ever since I first got into the game. As such, one of the prides of my collection is a copy of the Complete Book of Necromancers for AD&D. This book provided numerous new kits for necromancers, both wizardly and clerical, and one of the Wizardly kits that most caught my attention was the Undead Master.

A true "dark overlord" type mage, this was a necromancer who, in exchange for far more restricted spells (no access to Alteration, Illusion or Divination, not even by scrolls or magical items) and drastically limited self-defense (only 1 weapon proficiency, chosen from the mage list), gained access to the Enchantment school of spells and the ability to Command Undead as per a cleric of the same level, plus the ability to use its "Command" feature on fiends and other extraplanar creatures as if they were undead of equivalent hit dice.

It was very flavorful, it was mechanically sound, and I really liked it. What I'm curious about, though, is whether or not folks think it could successfully convert over to 5e as either a Prestige Class for necromancers or an alternate Arcane Tradition.

So... yeah, what do you think? I'd love to put my mind together and see about bringing this archetype fully over into 5e, if it can make the journey.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Sounds very possible.

I don't have the book in question, but I'd start by listing out everything the Undead Master should have and look for nearly equivalent abilities to use for rules text. Add the usual ability score boosts at the same levels as the wizard; adjust weapon proficiencies, edit the spell list (and if necessary convert any missing spells from AD&D to 5E), add the cleric's control undead (maybe look at the version in the DMG for inspiration). And, you'd be pretty close to done.

 

[QuietBrowser]

Thank you very much for the kind words of support! Taking your advice, this is what the Undead Master looked like in 2e:

Base Class: Wizard
Alignment Requirements: Must be Neutral or Evil
Advantages:

• Spellcasting enhancements as per a Necromancer
• Can cast Enchantment school spells (ordinarily forbidden to Necromancers)
• Can Command Undead as per an Evil Cleric of equivalent level
• Can use Command feature to control Fiends and Extraplanar Creatures as if they were Undead of equivalent hit dice

Disadvantages:

• Cannot cast spells from the Alteration (Transmutation, in subsequent editions), Divination or Illusion schools
• Cannot use specialist wizard items (wand of illusion, wand of polymorph, robe of eyes, etc) drawing from those schools
• Can only have 1 proficiency point in 1 Wizard weapon; all other proficiency points must be spent on non-weapon proficiencies

So, what this tells me is that a 5e update needs a Command Undead & Fiends feature, like a cleric, and other features that bolster affinity with Necromancy spells and Enchantment spells. I can't make my mind up if they should get some Conjuration-boosting traits too - what do you think?

Or should I post their AD&D fluff writeup, even the whole fluff + crunch writeup, before asking something like this?

For a recap, these are the features of the Necromancer, Enchanter and Conjurer wizards in 5e, plus the Command Undead ability of the Oathbreaker Paladin - ironically, Death clerics have no special modifications to their default Turn Undead ability.
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Oathbreaker Paladin:
Channel Divinity - Control Undead: Target one visible undead creature with a CR lower than your level within 30 feet; target must successfully pass a Wisdom save or obey all of the paladin's orders for 24 hours or until it uses this ability on another target.

Conjurer:

• Conjuration Savant: Halve gold & time to copy Conjuration spells into your spellbook.
• Minor Conjuration: Summon assorted small, non-magical items at will.
• Benign Transportation: Teleport 30 feet or tele-switch locations with a willing Medium or Small creature within that range. Usable once per long rest, but recharges if you cast a 1st level or higher Conjuration spell.
• Focused Conjuration: Conjuration spells you cast with the Concentration trait can no longer be dispelled by inflicting damage on you.
• Durable Summons: +30 temp HP on all conjured creatures you summon/create.

Enchanter:

• Enchantment Savant: Halve gold & time to copy Enchantment spells into your spellbook.
• Hypnotic Gaze: Can seize hypnotic control over a creature at will.
• Instinctive Charm: Can use a reaction to cause an attacking creature within 30 feet that aims its attack at you to instead target someone else.
• Split Enchantment: Can use 1st level or higher single-target Enchantment spells on 2 targets simultaneously.
• Alter Memories: Can choose to have Charmed creatures fail to realize they were charmed when the spell ends, and wipe some of their memories from their time whilst charmed.

Necromancer:

• Necromancy Savant: Halve gold & time to copy Necromancy spells into your spellbook.
• Grim Harvest: Once per turn, can gain HP by killing non-undead non-construct creatures with your 1st+ level spells, with more health regained from Necromantic spells.
• Undead Thralls: Gain Animate Dead for free, increase amount of undead you can raise per casting by +1, undead you create gain hit point & damage bonuses.
• Inured to Undeath: Gain Resistance (Necrotic) and immunity to max HP reduction.
• Command Undead: Can attempt to take control over a visible undead creature within 60 feet. Target must successfully pass a Charisma save or else become friendly and obedient to you; if it passes its check, it becomes permanently immune to this ability from you. You can only have one such minion at a time. Undead with Int 8+ have Advantage on their save, undead with Int 12+ can re-take their saving throw at the end of every hour until they succeed.

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These'll come in handy for inspiration, but I figure the best way to handle the Undead Master - who may need a rename, since their defining trait is being master over the dead, the demonic and the living - is to give it a complete swathe of new traits. Make sense to anybody else?

 

[kbrakke]

My personal philosophy is to do the minimum possible when converting things to 5e. In this case I think you can get the same feel from an arcane tradition. I would focus the abilities around using spell slots to command undead creatures. Effectively giving them an animate dead like ability that they can constantly use. Something like this, wording aside.

Level 2: Necromancy Savant: Same as in the book.
Notes: Here, if you want you can impose the school restrictions, but my personal opinion is that they are no longer needed to establish flavor. If you think they should still be implmented there should be an additional buff to the wizard. Something like they can prepare an additional necromancy spell for each spell level.

Level 2: Command undead (the new one): You can expend a spell slot and choose an undead creature with a CR no greater than the slot level, that you can see within 60ft. It must make a wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. On a successful save nothing happens and it is immune to this effect for another 24 hours. On a failed save it treats you as its master for 24 hours. You can spend a spell slot of the same level to re-assert this control over that creature for another 24 hours.

Notes: This is basically the same as animate dead but with different scaling and a worse slot:minion ratio. It has some synergy with animate dead by allowing you to spend lower level slots to maintain control and free up higher level ones.

Level 6: Same as the necromancer one but add the bonuses to your controlled undead. This is pretty much the defining undead commander ability, making your army of skelletons a force to be reckoned with.

Level 10: If you like the flavor of the necromancer turning partially undead with the resistances, keep it. Otherwise I would add something about the level 2 charm working on fiends and celestials

Level 14: Keep it the same as the necromancer one but add on the ability to target fiends and celestials. I would also up the int requirements for keeping the thrall. int 12 have advantage and int 17 get to do it every hour.

That's my quick and dirty take on the Undead Master. Charm undead, use your magical power to keep control of them. Eventually get the ability to do it to demons and angels. Exact values and wording can be altered, but this feels like a commander type.

 

[QuietBrowser]

Hmm... I appreciate the suggestions, Kbrakke, but they're a little too focused on the undead angle, whereas a proper "dark master" should be adept at controlling undead, outsiders and mortals alike.

I've actually been thinking and after a lucky surge of inspiration, this is what I'm currently leaning towards for the basic outline of the "Dark Master":

Level 2: Grimoire of Chains
Halve the time & cost required to copy Enchantment, Necromancy and Conjuration spells into your spellbook.

Level 2: Charms of Command
Automatically add Charm Person to your spell list, can spontaneously spend spell slots to cast Charm Person, can use Charm Person on Undead, Fiends, Fey and Elementals.

Level 6: Master of Magical Creatures
Charmed Undead/Extraplanar Beings are now under your command for longer

Level 10: Master's Blessing and Curse
Creatures Charmed, Animated or Conjured by you gain a bonus so long as they remain under your command. Creatures that break free of your Charm suffer damage and/or debuff.

Level 14: Shackle the Soul
Can make conjured/animated/charmed creatures permanent minions.


This is just a very bare-bones idea, but do folks think that this might be a step in the right direction towards the ultimate minion-master mage?

 

[Ath'kethin]

Reviewing the old kit, it seems like you're definitely not he right track. It also seems to me, however, that the name "Undead Master" is a little off for this concept. After all, the character commands fiends as well.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The wizard Necromancy Tradition is probably the closest thing we have to a minion-based subclass. I'd suggest looking there for inspiration, and watering down their capabilities a little to compensate for the fact that you can apply the benefits to fiends as well.
You should probably link the number of total minions you can control/charm as well, rather than have separate totals for fiends and undead.

Ability to apply enchantment spells that usually only affect humanoids to fiends and undead might be a good ability to fill in where the necromancer has a non-minion-related boost.