Undead Rage?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Do undead with the Rage ability use their Cha mod in place of Con? Since undead are immune to fatigue, do they ignore that penalizing aspect of raging?

 

[shilsen]

By the RAW, undead with the Rage ability rage only for 3 rds (since the Con mod is zero). Using the Cha modifier instead is a common house rule. And yes, they ignore the fatigue aspect of raging.

 

[the Jester]

Shilsen pretty much covered this. Personally, I'm of the opinion that, by the time the pcs encounter a barbarian vampire, most fights only last about three rounds anyway.

 

[Garnfellow]

By the RAW, undead with the Rage ability rage only for 3 rds (since the Con mod is zero). Using the Cha modifier instead is a common house rule. And yes, they ignore the fatigue aspect of raging.

The 3.0 Player's Handbook FAQ has this to say:

If a barbarian became undead (by gaining the vampire template, for example), how would you determine how long his rage lasts? He no longer has a Constitution score. Could an undead barbarian theoretically rage until all opponents were defeated or someone takes him down? Or does his rage simply last 3 rounds (base 3 + 0 for no Constitution score)? Or do you assume that the undead barbarian has a Constitution score of 4 (0 + 4 bonus from rage) and so cannot rage at all, since the modifier for an ability score of 4 is –3? Does this Constitution “boost” have any other effects on the undead barbarian? Does he actually lose hit points?

An undead creature uses its Charisma modifier wherever its Constitution modifier would normally apply (except Fortitude saving throws, for which the creature must use its +0 Constitut ion modifier if it needs to make a Fortitude save at all). Thus, the example barbarian rages for a number of rounds equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier (but always for at least 1 round).

An undead creature has no Constitution score at all and cannot gain one by receiving a bonus. Therefore, the +4 Constitution bonus from rage has no effect on this barbarian.

 

[Ashardalon]

The 3.0 Player's Handbook FAQ has this to say:

That ruling apparently didn't make it into the revised rules, though. The SRD entry for undead

Undead Type: Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
Features: An undead creature has the following features.
—12-sided Hit Dice.
—Base attack bonus equal to 1/2 total Hit Dice (as wizard).
—Good Will saves.
—Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—No Constitution score.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
—Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
—Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
—Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
—Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
—Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
—Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
—Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

only gives one instance for undead using their Cha instead of their Con, and that is for Concentration checks.

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

The MM says under undead description what any undead uses their Cha bonus instead Con bonus for Concentration I think is the same for others abilities as rage

 

[Ashardalon]

The MM says under undead description what any undead uses their Cha bonus instead Con bonus for Concentration I think is the same for others abilities as rage

It would certainly make sense to house rule this way, but if only Concentration is mentioned, only Concentration is meant. There are a few things based on Con, yet the description only mentions one "little" skill. Wouldn't the description say, "undead use their Cha bonus instead of their Con bonus for everything Con-based (except Fort saves)" if that was the intention?

As I said, I don't think it is really wrong to do that, but by the official rules, it is not "correct".

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

The Whirling Frenzy rage variant in UA and the WotC site is good for undead. They don't get the needless Con boost and their AC goes up to protect their usually-fragile HP.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I thought the 3.5 FAQ said that everything in the 3.0 FAQ was still legit unless the 3.5 stated otherwise?

If that's the case, then undead barbarians would use their Cha mod, as indicated in the above posts.

 

[blargney the second]

While it seems to be possible for an undead to rage according to the rules, it seems a little strange to me. The way rage is written, it sounds like an entirely biological process... which undead no longer have!

However, if it makes for cool encounters, so much the better!
-blarg