Underdark Overview, aka Return of Drow Weaponry

[drnuncheon]

There's a reason for all this. It's anatomical/genetical.

What, the fact that a merman will get more use out of a trident of fish control is anatomical? Well, OK, make it an aquatic elf. Or hell, make it a fisherman as compared to a guy that lives on a mountain. It's situational, which is the point I was trying to make.

Plus I can take it back with me on the surface and try to sell it. If I did that with a drow sword, I'd be quick to sell - and quicker to get away, when the cheated merchant lets the mercs and assassins loose.

Or you could get clever and sell it to dwarves. Or other races that live underground. You could keep it in a bag of holding between trips to the Underdark.

Let's compare a drow NPC and an elf NPC and do the math from there.

That would miss the point. You're apparently OK with that sort of thing as long as the magic word 'NPC' isn't there. If it's a 'monster' it's OK, if it's an 'NPC' it's not. Your response to my GWF/GWS suggestion makes that even more clear.

J

 

[Arnwyn]

It isn't a conspiracy theory. I didn't claim that the Illuminati forced Wizards to give them back drowcraft.

In my reading of what you typed, to me you certainly did claim that (except you simply interchanged the word "Illuminati" with the equally ubiquitous "veterans").

And it has happened that changes were made even though only a minority wanted these changes.

Be careful when talking about "majorities" or "minorities" on messageboards. It doesn't get you very far.

And finding a friendly merchant in the Underdark is tricky, so he probably can't sell it here.

There has been no mention anywhere that finding a magic item merchant in the Underdark is any more difficult than finding a magic item merchant in the world above. This argument isn't applicable.

Simply put, if the drow are charged for a +2 or +3 weapon in their gp value of equipment - whether or not the item melts in sunlight or whatever - it is balanced reasonably well.

 

[jasamcarl]

What problem? There is no problem as far as most of us are concerned. The drowcrafted weapons cost an additional +1 bonus.

A +1 drowcrafted rapier is around 8kgp (the cost of a +2 rapier). In the Faezressness or near Earth Nodes it counts as a +3 rapier. Outside those zones it counts as a +1 rapier. In sunlight it has a fortitude save required per day or it turns to dust. An oil can be applied to protect it for a day.

Why is this a big deal? The NPC is 'charged' for a +2 weapon. They get a +3 weapon in CERTAIN places. If the PC gets it he has a weapon that is +1/+3 and was charged for treasure as +2, why is this so bad? I guess I just fail to see this being some giant player screwing conspiracy or horribly bad precident to set.

I for one do not COUNT on my NPCs dieing the moment they encounter the PCs. They do things like withdraw and attack again later. They come after the PCs at home or whereever for revenge. In those cases, they better stock up on the right oil, because they are gonna need it just as much as the PCs do.

I stand corrected. It certainly is balanced for PCs then, though there still is a problem that any enemy using this will not see its essential drawback, so they get a +1 enhancement bonus for free. Perhaps if there were some type of appropriate spell vulnerability (daylight?) that can be utilized in the underdark.

 

[Wraithdrit]

Next on the debate menu. Illithidwrought... gets an extra bonus when used by psionic creatures!

The horror! Its all about screwing the PCs, I tell you!

 

[Wraithdrit]

Actually the book says "A drowcraft weapon exposed to sunlight must make a DC 8 Fort save..."

It never states whether or not Daylight is effective. Since daylight says it provides light the brightness of sun, I would rule no, while the sunburst (I think that is the name of it) I believe produces 'sunlight' and would thus make for an effective offense against such.

Also darkoil (the oil used to protect the weapons and armor) can be used to cover three weapons or one suit of armor per dose. Dosage cost? A whopping 25 gp. Or a DC 20 alchemy check if you are so inclined. Eek! The expense! Its too much!

Hehehe.

 

[jasamcarl]

Next on the debate menu. Illithidwrought... gets an extra bonus when used by psionic creatures!

The horror! Its all about screwing the PCs, I tell you!

Yeah, but is it priced based upon its utility for psionic characters? It should be. As it stands, the description of drowcrafted items i've seen is basically a +1 giveaway to npcs. It priced as a +2 enhancement item, but pretty much all situations in which an npc would use it, its a +3 item.

 

[Wraithdrit]

Illithidwrought costs a +2 bonus. Probably since it has no chance to turn to dust. So for a +2 bonus you can get... a +2 bonus, if your a psychic. Also its an insight bonus.

So technically Illithid wrought and drowcraft can be added to +5 enhancement blades to net an effective +7 weapon! Argh! The horror!

Hehehe.

 

[jasamcarl]

Illithidwrought costs a +2 bonus. Probably since it has no chance to turn to dust. So for a +2 bonus you can get... a +2 bonus, if your a psychic. Also its an insight bonus.

So technically Illithid wrought and drowcraft can be added to +5 enhancement blades to net an effective +7 weapon! Argh! The horror!

Hehehe.

Except that it sounds like such an illithidcraft weapon would be priced as a +7 enhancement bonus item, while drowcraft would be +6. Hardly balanced for npc uses.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Only that this is not a good idea. Otherwise, I'm all for good ideas and flavour, unless they make more trouble than they contribute.

What trouble does this give you? That you don't get the book value in treasure for a monster or NPC of a particular level? How does that mess the game up? Mechanically that's not a problem is it? Does it throw the DC system off? I don't see the trouble from a DM's point of view. Is it the fact that the average drow treasure horad isn't "balanced" with the treasure hoard of a similar monster? How is that a problem? Fill me in on what I'm missing.

 

[jasamcarl]

What trouble does this give you? That you don't get the book value in treasure for a monster or NPC of a particular level? How does that mess the game up? Mechanically that's not a problem is it? Does it throw the DC system off? I don't see the trouble from a DM's point of view. Is it the fact that the average drow treasure horad isn't "balanced" with the treasure hoard of a similar monster? How is that a problem? Fill me in on what I'm missing.

By the book, yes it does mess with the CR system, because, unlike most monsters, npcs can actually USE their treasure. By increasing the value of the npcs gear beyond its assumed levels, you are increasing the challenge of the npc beyond what would be expected. Is that clear?

Now, don't get me wrong, I think most npcs, especially the martial ones which would be inclined to use this property, don't really live up to their CR, so I doubt this will be especially unbalancing. It still breaks with the assumptions of the system as written though, even if those assumption are dubious in some cases.