Underground tunnels in the Middle East, ancient and modern

[Templetroll]

About Iraq, yet on topic

In a land filled with ruins of ancient empires there have recently been found many heavily-fortified, underground defense installations, aka dungeons. It just struck me as odd that in Iraq, and the cave systems in Afganistan are so like the dungeons we've been gaming in for the last 25+ years.

The largest I've heard described was the one under the Baghdad airport and there are several others under various buildings and palaces.

There was a clip on one news story showing troops exploring a site, far better equiped and with tactics that would be great for any gaming group to adopt! I especially liked that they announced, "Last man out!" when they exited.

 

[Enceladus]

These are ancient tunnels? Since that area of the middle east, Baghdad in particular is the home pretty much, of modern civilization this would come as no surprise.

If they are Saddams tunnels this comes as no surprise too since he was a loony.

 

[Henry]

QUICK REMINDER: Everyone here should know the line regarding politics. Let's try not to go south of it.

With that in mind, keep in mind the whole region has been using underground areas and cave systems for years for one group to hide from another. In fact, isn't there a great deal of sandstone in Asia Minor, which might make it easier to excavate?

It also brings to mind the use of even more modern tunnels. If all these tunnels were dug in this area without the knowledge of the majority of the outside world, it brings the question why similar tunnels and "dungeons" would not be fairly easy in a fantasy world containing Umber hulks, Ankhegs, Formians, Dig Spells, and earth elementals?

Some gamers question the verisimilitude of having spiderwebs of tunnels in a D&D region - but the equivalent of heavy digging equipment exists for those with wealth and magic in a D&D world, so why not?

Templetroll, I hope you don't mind if I edited the title of your thread.

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: About Iraq, yet on topic

There was a clip on one news story showing troops exploring a site, far better equiped and with tactics that would be great for any gaming group to adopt! I especially liked that they announced, "Last man out!" when they exited.

I would love to hear more of these tactics.

J

 

[tarchon]

These are ancient tunnels? Since that area of the middle east, Baghdad in particular is the home pretty much, of modern civilization this would come as no surprise.

Probably not - man-made tunnels don't hold up well over time. It was not unusual for ancient cities to have them though for use during seiges. Jerusalem as I recall had some that led to a spring.

 

[Breakstone]

Dude, they should send us D&D'ers into the tunnels!

"Let's move out!"

"No, wait! Let the rogue check for traps first!"

 

[Templetroll]

QUICK REMINDER: Everyone here should know the line regarding politics. Let's try not to go south of it.

Templetroll, I hope you don't mind if I edited the title of your thread.

Sir, I have the utmost respect for you and the change is much closer to the topic of the thread!

..... the question why similar tunnels and "dungeons" would not be fairly easy in a fantasy world containing Umber hulks, Ankhegs, Formians, Dig Spells, and earth elementals?

Some gamers question the verisimilitude of having spiderwebs of tunnels in a D&D region - but the equivalent of heavy digging equipment exists for those with wealth and magic in a D&D world, so why not?

I would expect that the fantasy 'construction force' would be far quieter and cicumspect, even with the rather wild nature of the of the digging creatures. The use of magic would be almost undetectable if done correctly.

 

[Templetroll]

These are ancient tunnels? Since that area of the middle east, Baghdad in particular is the home pretty much, of modern civilization this would come as no surprise.

If they are Saddams tunnels this comes as no surprise too since he was a loony.

The tunnels in Tora Bora in Afganistan may have been older, but were much expanded recently. They reminded me of the Caves of Chaos in the "Keep on the Borderland" modules. There was a computer simulation of the tunnels on the news a year ago that looked quite like what a dungeon sideview would be.

The ones now being found in Baghdad were relatively new; within the last 20 years or so. From the descriptions of what is under the airport it was expected to be used as a stronghold.

 

[Templetroll]

Re: Re: About Iraq, yet on topic

I would love to hear more of these tactics.
J

The small bit shown would be the equivilent of a team of adventurers with Rods that included Magic Missile (5 shots every 6 seconds, can be spread across 15 feet per time interval) and Continual Flame with focusing equipment so it shone forward.

The team went into the room on a count and moved their weapons around so the entire room was bathed in what would be confusing light display to anyone hiding in the room. The amount of light and potential fire coverage was impressive. In fantasy terms it would be an average potential of 64 points and max of 125 points spewing into any area. Could make a for a cool campaign - any combination of fighting ability and magic use would work. That much fire power would even take out a Brooch of Shielding in two rounds!

 

[hong]

Re: Re: About Iraq, yet on topic

I would love to hear more of these tactics.

1. Go into dungeon

2. Kill the monsters

3. Take the treasure


Hong "4. level up" Ooi