Underpowered Spells
- Thread starter Cheiromancer
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Celebrim
Legend
Hmmm....The opposite topic of conversation tends to get more discussion. Underpowered spells tend to just go unnoticed.
Does anyone other than me think Blur would be more interesting as a 1st level spell?
How about Contact Other Plane? Just what is the chance that this spell will actually be useful compared to the chance it will take your character out of play from an indefinite period? I've always thought the benifit far underpowered for the price.
I agree that Detect Undead is underpowered, but only in that I think it should have a larger range - say 120 ft. instead of 60 ft. Since it is more specific than Detect Evil, you'd expect it to have finer resolution.
I also agree that False Vision would greatly benefit from a duration of say 10 minutes per level. Longer duration would be problamatic because we don't want it to replace Screen.
I think Foresight suffers from the same general problem all precognition type spells have - they require the DM to see the future. Foresight needs to be much more specific about what its benifits are in game terms. For instance, it is not unreasonable from the description to assume that cast on self, the character gains Uncanny Dodge or its strong equivalent. But to what degree do they gain such power? It is not spelled out, and I suspect that if it was, it would raise the hue and cry of taking class abilities and giving them to Wizards. Similarly, it is not unreasonable to argue from the same logic that it grants Evasion or even Improved Evasion, and that knowing what was about to happen would be a great initiative advantage. But none of this is spelled out explicitly and it is left to DM arbitration for each particular situation. Suppose Foresight when cast on self explicitly gave +2 to AC & reflex saves, +4 to initiative, uncanny dodge as a rogue of the same level, and improved evasion (Duck!) would people still argue that it was underpowered?
Iron Body combines a powerful defensive spell with three restrictions that manages to render it unusable in any situation in which a powerful defensive spell is needed: 1) it can only be cast on the self, 2) it severely hinders further spell casting, and 3) it makes retreat difficult by halving your speed. It is still reasonably useful for bypassing a variaty of hazards though, and damage reduction 50/+3 is in itself quite powerful. I wouldn't say it is underpowered, just highly specialized.
Whenever someone is preparing Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer it usually means some 1st level spell is overpowered.
Shout is somewhat weak, but also somewhat underrated. It is a cone, which is always nice. It is sonic damage, which few creatures resist. It deafens, which can be fun, especially combined with spells like Deeper Darkness or Darklight. Plus it has special purpose against certain classes of creatures. My only gripe is that the damage doesn't scale at least slightly (say 1d6 per 3 levels of caster), and that it doesn't effect a wider variaty of objects (all stone for instance).
Ventriloquism has always seemed like a spell with limited utility to me.
Does anyone other than me think Blur would be more interesting as a 1st level spell?
How about Contact Other Plane? Just what is the chance that this spell will actually be useful compared to the chance it will take your character out of play from an indefinite period? I've always thought the benifit far underpowered for the price.
I agree that Detect Undead is underpowered, but only in that I think it should have a larger range - say 120 ft. instead of 60 ft. Since it is more specific than Detect Evil, you'd expect it to have finer resolution.
I also agree that False Vision would greatly benefit from a duration of say 10 minutes per level. Longer duration would be problamatic because we don't want it to replace Screen.
I think Foresight suffers from the same general problem all precognition type spells have - they require the DM to see the future. Foresight needs to be much more specific about what its benifits are in game terms. For instance, it is not unreasonable from the description to assume that cast on self, the character gains Uncanny Dodge or its strong equivalent. But to what degree do they gain such power? It is not spelled out, and I suspect that if it was, it would raise the hue and cry of taking class abilities and giving them to Wizards. Similarly, it is not unreasonable to argue from the same logic that it grants Evasion or even Improved Evasion, and that knowing what was about to happen would be a great initiative advantage. But none of this is spelled out explicitly and it is left to DM arbitration for each particular situation. Suppose Foresight when cast on self explicitly gave +2 to AC & reflex saves, +4 to initiative, uncanny dodge as a rogue of the same level, and improved evasion (Duck!) would people still argue that it was underpowered?
Iron Body combines a powerful defensive spell with three restrictions that manages to render it unusable in any situation in which a powerful defensive spell is needed: 1) it can only be cast on the self, 2) it severely hinders further spell casting, and 3) it makes retreat difficult by halving your speed. It is still reasonably useful for bypassing a variaty of hazards though, and damage reduction 50/+3 is in itself quite powerful. I wouldn't say it is underpowered, just highly specialized.
Whenever someone is preparing Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer it usually means some 1st level spell is overpowered.
Shout is somewhat weak, but also somewhat underrated. It is a cone, which is always nice. It is sonic damage, which few creatures resist. It deafens, which can be fun, especially combined with spells like Deeper Darkness or Darklight. Plus it has special purpose against certain classes of creatures. My only gripe is that the damage doesn't scale at least slightly (say 1d6 per 3 levels of caster), and that it doesn't effect a wider variaty of objects (all stone for instance).
Ventriloquism has always seemed like a spell with limited utility to me.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Celebrim said:
Well, blur is an excellent defensive spell against sneak attacks... they can't sneak attack you when you've got any concealment
Maudlin
First Post
Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer is quite useful to keep on a bunch of scrolls (or a wand, or better still an item that casts it x times/day), if your campaign requires you to go long periods of time without resting, or if you're heading to a big confrontation.
You can increase your spells/day significantly if you're willing to pay the price. Zap an entire wand and you can cast 25 extra Disintegrates in a day. Sure, a wand with 25 disintegrates is cheaper, but not THAT much, and you don't get to choose what you memorize.
You can increase your spells/day significantly if you're willing to pay the price. Zap an entire wand and you can cast 25 extra Disintegrates in a day. Sure, a wand with 25 disintegrates is cheaper, but not THAT much, and you don't get to choose what you memorize.
JacktheRabbit
Explorer
Every spell has a good use. My cleric used this spell last week to find neutral aligned zombies hidden in condemned buildings in a city.
Detect Evil wouldnt have done a thing for me.
Detect Evil wouldnt have done a thing for me.
Al said:
Celebrim
Legend
Maudlin: While your note about scrolls is an important point for Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer, could you explain to me what RME has to do with Disentigrate - a 6th level spell?
DocMoriarty: I'm pretty sure zombies and skeletons have been erattaed as NE. In fact, I'm pretty sure that they were the first exception that allowed creatures without Int scores to have (rarely) alignments. So in a campaign following the standard core rules, virtually all undead are evil anyway.
DocMoriarty: I'm pretty sure zombies and skeletons have been erattaed as NE. In fact, I'm pretty sure that they were the first exception that allowed creatures without Int scores to have (rarely) alignments. So in a campaign following the standard core rules, virtually all undead are evil anyway.
Maudlin
First Post
Well, since it gives you a 'pool' of spell levels that possibly won't be used until you prepare your spells, very flexible DMs might allow you to go above 3rd level...Celebrim said:
Actually *reading* the spell, however, suggests that you probably only get to distribute them up to 3rd level though, and get them immediately instead of having to prepare them first. Still, heaploads of 3rd level spells is nothing to sniff at
