JacktheRabbit
Explorer
Regenerate is a useless spell since now in 3E is pretty impossible to lose a limb without dying, at least in combat.
Aaron2 said:
Underpowered Spells
- Thread starter Cheiromancer
- Start date
Zappo
Explorer
Last session on Dragonlance, I had two PC wizards who broke the rules of the Order*be given the choice between losing his left hand or getting executioned (you want to play lawful evil? Know that your superiors are lawful evil, too). One of them for some reason which escapes me chose death. I think he didn't believe I would really have done it. One of them chose the hand and fled away from the tower to the party cleric to be regenerated (next time he meets the wizards of the tower, someone is going to be surprised, angry and curious).DocMoriartty said:
What's the point? Well, that has been the one and only instance when I've seen regeneration used.
*They brought the whole party via multiple teleports into the tower of high sorcery, while higher ranking wizards were shouting at him "Stop immediately!", to which one of them answered "Shut up!" - notice that it's forbidden to bring non-wizards arbitrarily inside the tower, especially dangerous non-wizards, and especially so suddenly, and especially in a moment of huge crisis like the current one IMC. One of the PC wizards wasn't even an affiliate of the Order, which is illegal too...
I beg to differ. Granted, there are chances of a big penalty, but Contact Other Plane is pretty good (annoyingly good) at foiling villains. Since it can give one-word answers (rather than Commune, which is a simple 'yes'/'no') it can easily be used to track down enemies, magical items and the like, assuming the correct questions are asked. In one campaign I ran, the PCs were being constantly attacked by assassins, and then the wizard cast COP. The first question: What is this guy's first name? The third question: What is the first line of his address? By a cunning line of questioning, they had garnered enough information to teleport to his front gate and confront him.
Of course, there is always a chance of failure, and of being seriously hit by the penalties: but that adds to the fun, doesn't it?
Celebrim
Legend
Al: I agree it can be a useful plot shortcut, but look at its severe limitations:
1) Let's say you play it safe and contact a Demideity. To begin with, that's a DC 10 _intelligence check_. Not a will save, an intelligence check. So, let's say you are a smarty and have a +6 intelligence bonus. That's a 15% chance that you are going to twiddling your toes and smiling at the daisies for two weeks.
Next, lets say you have a burning question to ask. There is only a 50% chance that the demideity knows the answer, and a 30% chance he gives you the wrong answer. So there is a 42% chance you get the information you need. On the other hand, there is a 15% chance you're insane (with no answers), a 17% chance that you have no answer, and a 26% chance that you now have the wrong information and don't know it.
You can keep asking questions, say 6 at 12th level, but you will only get on average 3 good one word answers (and 2 misleading ones).
2) Let's say you get tired of that and deside to contact a greater deity. The greater deity has only a 10% chance of being misleading, but since you have a 45% chance of taking a long vaction (DC 16 intelligence check), you aren't getting much better results. You get the information you need 49% of the time, you are insane 45% of the time (with no answer), 1% of the time you get nothing, and 6% of the time you get a misleading answer.
One thing that I wish showed up in the latest incarnation of the FAQ is whether or not the effective ability decrease is intended to be curable by a Heal spell or the like. One would like to assume that it is (otherwise this spell simply isn't going to be used), but I'm not entirely sure because the wording is quite vague.
1) Let's say you play it safe and contact a Demideity. To begin with, that's a DC 10 _intelligence check_. Not a will save, an intelligence check. So, let's say you are a smarty and have a +6 intelligence bonus. That's a 15% chance that you are going to twiddling your toes and smiling at the daisies for two weeks.
Next, lets say you have a burning question to ask. There is only a 50% chance that the demideity knows the answer, and a 30% chance he gives you the wrong answer. So there is a 42% chance you get the information you need. On the other hand, there is a 15% chance you're insane (with no answers), a 17% chance that you have no answer, and a 26% chance that you now have the wrong information and don't know it.
You can keep asking questions, say 6 at 12th level, but you will only get on average 3 good one word answers (and 2 misleading ones).
2) Let's say you get tired of that and deside to contact a greater deity. The greater deity has only a 10% chance of being misleading, but since you have a 45% chance of taking a long vaction (DC 16 intelligence check), you aren't getting much better results. You get the information you need 49% of the time, you are insane 45% of the time (with no answer), 1% of the time you get nothing, and 6% of the time you get a misleading answer.
One thing that I wish showed up in the latest incarnation of the FAQ is whether or not the effective ability decrease is intended to be curable by a Heal spell or the like. One would like to assume that it is (otherwise this spell simply isn't going to be used), but I'm not entirely sure because the wording is quite vague.
Lucius Foxhound
First Post
gust o' wind
You know, I lead the rallying cry against Gust of Wind a year ago on the boards as a useless 3rd level spell (it should be first, I said!).
But last gaming session, I wished I had it. We were on a mountain top, and heard motion below us somewhere. A thick fog had blanketed the area and we weren't sure what to do. Vision was limited to 10 feet in front of you. The fighters charged in ... only to meet a medusa (who promptly turned one to stone).
My 8th level Wiz wasn't sure what to do. He flew above, but saw nothing. Finally, I had to land and make a saving throw before killing the thing with Phantasmal Killer.
Gust of Wind would have saved a lot of time and a lot of people trouble. Was there any 1st-4th level spell that could have cleared away the fog?
You know, I lead the rallying cry against Gust of Wind a year ago on the boards as a useless 3rd level spell (it should be first, I said!).
But last gaming session, I wished I had it. We were on a mountain top, and heard motion below us somewhere. A thick fog had blanketed the area and we weren't sure what to do. Vision was limited to 10 feet in front of you. The fighters charged in ... only to meet a medusa (who promptly turned one to stone).
My 8th level Wiz wasn't sure what to do. He flew above, but saw nothing. Finally, I had to land and make a saving throw before killing the thing with Phantasmal Killer.
Gust of Wind would have saved a lot of time and a lot of people trouble. Was there any 1st-4th level spell that could have cleared away the fog?
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
My party uses iron body all the time, but that's because they have a use-activated magic item that triggers it. A cleric or a fighter with iron body is one tough opponent.
Hmmm. A wizard with Magic jar could do some amazing buff spells on another party member by temporarily possessing them; when the wizard switches back into his body, the iron body and all the other "self only" spells would stay on the possessed body. Interesting tactic.
Hmmm. A wizard with Magic jar could do some amazing buff spells on another party member by temporarily possessing them; when the wizard switches back into his body, the iron body and all the other "self only" spells would stay on the possessed body. Interesting tactic.
Celebrim said:
Nope, or at least there's no mention of it in the MM errata. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Detect evil explicitly pings undead. It's one of those quirks.
See also this thread on rgfd, culminating in a $500 bet, I mean contract, on the outcome of a Sage ruling:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&threadm=b75O8.18899$jp2.491600087@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com
Re: gust o' wind
I almost never prepare Gust of Wind, since many of the spell's effects can be duplicated by an Air Elemental's whirlwind form. Even a small elemental's whirlwind that moves 100 feet per round with perfect maneuverability would scatter a fog bank pretty quickly. Summon Monster 3 is the same level spell as gust of wind, and much more universally useful.
Lucius Foxhound said:
I almost never prepare Gust of Wind, since many of the spell's effects can be duplicated by an Air Elemental's whirlwind form. Even a small elemental's whirlwind that moves 100 feet per round with perfect maneuverability would scatter a fog bank pretty quickly. Summon Monster 3 is the same level spell as gust of wind, and much more universally useful.
Glyfair
Explorer
Cheiromancer said:
I think this spell should have some sort of a bonus to the Search ability. Otherwise it seems an elegant way to capture the old "Find Traps" spell.
I disagree with those who think that class abilities should be disallowed as spells. I think such spells should certainly be limited timewise, though. Yes, if you suspect a trap in a certain area then you wouldn't need a rogue. However, if you don't know where traps might be occuring, then you certainly need a rogue. A single spell shouldn't last all day.
Aaron2 said:
It's probably underpowered, but note that at 5th level you bring someone back from the dead and reattach his limb for the cost of a level. That means players won't often be contemplating killing off their characters to get their arms back very often.
David A. Blizzard
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