Underpowered
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Artoomis
First Post
Without doubt, the winner of the most underpowered and useless spell is:
Note from the Search Skill:
So non-rogues using Find Traps get to find traps with greater than DC 20 - whoopee!! What a waste of a spell!
Of the core classes (prestige included) only the Assassin, Ranger, Rogue and Shadowdancer have search as a class skill. Of those, only the Ranger can't find traps like a Rogue, and, of course, this spell is not on their spell list. The only class that might have some use for this spell doesn't get the spell on their list.
Useless. I can usually think of a good, imaginitive situation that makes spells useful, but this one is terrible. What's the point?
Note from the Search Skill:
So non-rogues using Find Traps get to find traps with greater than DC 20 - whoopee!! What a waste of a spell!
Of the core classes (prestige included) only the Assassin, Ranger, Rogue and Shadowdancer have search as a class skill. Of those, only the Ranger can't find traps like a Rogue, and, of course, this spell is not on their spell list. The only class that might have some use for this spell doesn't get the spell on their list.
Useless. I can usually think of a good, imaginitive situation that makes spells useful, but this one is terrible. What's the point?
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Forrester said:
I almost named these two, but I held back. Foresight has some interpretations that would make it severely underpowered, but most reasonable DM's notice that is makes sweeping statements about knowledge gained, and is the pinnacle of divination spells. It basically negates surprise, invisibility, and any kind of tactical advantage. If someone has foresight up, there should literally be no combat action that is surprising to him.
Animate Dead is underpowered as a 5th level arcane spell, but IMO, that's because skeletons and zombies simply suck. I had a flying, invisible osyluth throwing animate dead every round on some ogre skeletons (I think he got 4 or 5 skeletons total). Against my 8th level party, it was a joke, they didn't suffer one wound at the hands of the skeletons. The only advantage they have is that they're permanent. So they make good peasant harassers, or foot soldiers in an army against War1's.
EDIT: For Artoomis, the Rogue's traps ability is very significant. I'm not sure if you noticed this, but the minimum DC for a trap is 20. That means that without the traps ability, only the single lowest DC is findable. And even without a class skill, it's not too hard to get +10 or +15 (with magic) to Search checks. Really, Find Traps is the only way to compensate for not having a Rogue around.
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Artoomis
First Post
nameless said:
True, though traps may have search DC's of less than 20, they normally do not.
In certain isolated circumstances this can be useful. Of course, it only lasts minutes, so it is most useful for finding that one trap that you are really sure exists. Take 20 (2 minutes - if the DM even allows take 20 for this skill, some don't), throw in a few bonsuses, and hope it's enough. It probabaly won't be, though. If you need to look that hard, you really need a Rogue whose "search" is maxed out and he's got bonuses as well.
A spell that virtually requires you to have one of only 3 skill-boosting magic items (goggles of minute seeing (1,000 gp)gives +5, lens of detection (3,500 gp) gives +10 and a robe of eyes gives (90,000 gp) gives+15) to function is not very well designed at all.
Thus it's pretty much useless. Now if it also provided, say, a +1 per caster level "sacred" (or "luck," maybe) bonus it would be at least useful as the bonus would stack and you'd have at least a reasonable chance of being able to do something with it.
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plavi
First Post
More and more
Hi guys, I'll be going through some of your posts now, thanx for the replies! Please keep it up, I've got some great ideas now.
Unless the duration of the Haste runs out before the combat is over, and that may happen quite easily! The players will of course respond to that with another haste. Fine, but they are still fatgued! Makes the metamagic-feat extend duration or whatever it is called suddenly much more interesting.
Remove Fatigue
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1, Clr 1, Healing 1, Drd 1, Travel 0
Components: S
Casting time: 1 round
Range: touch
Target: 1 creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: None
Spell resistance: yes (harmless)
This spell negates the condition fatigued.
Cause Fatigue
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1, Clr 2, Death 1, Brd 2, Drd 1
Components: V,S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: touch
Target: 1 creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: Fort. negates
Spell resistance: yes (harmless)
By touching a creature the caster can cause the victim to become tired. The victim is fatigued as described in the DMG. (Fatigued characters cannot charge or run and suffer -2 DEX and -2 STR. Lasts until 8 hours are slept.)
Yup. It is certainly underpowered. Good idea, I might change that one. What do I say. I WILL change that one...
Chris
Hi guys, I'll be going through some of your posts now, thanx for the replies! Please keep it up, I've got some great ideas now.
Unless the duration of the Haste runs out before the combat is over, and that may happen quite easily! The players will of course respond to that with another haste. Fine, but they are still fatgued! Makes the metamagic-feat extend duration or whatever it is called suddenly much more interesting.
Sounds good, but +4 AC for a 1st lvl spell? How could one ever sell this to the fighters wearing plate with all the drawbacks armor has. I think Mage Armor fits that slot nicely. But I'll keep it in mind.
Remove Fatigue
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1, Clr 1, Healing 1, Drd 1, Travel 0
Components: S
Casting time: 1 round
Range: touch
Target: 1 creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: None
Spell resistance: yes (harmless)
This spell negates the condition fatigued.
Cause Fatigue
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1, Clr 2, Death 1, Brd 2, Drd 1
Components: V,S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: touch
Target: 1 creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: Fort. negates
Spell resistance: yes (harmless)
By touching a creature the caster can cause the victim to become tired. The victim is fatigued as described in the DMG. (Fatigued characters cannot charge or run and suffer -2 DEX and -2 STR. Lasts until 8 hours are slept.)
Gank it at will....
Yup. It is certainly underpowered. Good idea, I might change that one. What do I say. I WILL change that one...
Chris
(Psi)SeveredHead said:
It does 1d10 points per round to anything over 6HD, or anything 4-6HD which makes the (fortitude) saving throw. It's a 5thlevel spell; compare that to Feeblemind, Dominate Person, Cone of Cold, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation, Teleport, Animal Growth (on the druid's or ranger's friends, ofc).
IMO, it should auto-kill up to 3 HD, save-or die, take 1d10+1/level for 4-to-6 HD, and 2d10+2/level save-for-half over 6 HD. What that means is, assuming all saves are made, the +1/level net boost makes it comparable as a combat spell. And at least 7HD+ creatures have to bother making a saving throw.
Consider that by the time you can cast this, you're a 9th level wizard or a 10th level sorceror. How frequently will you run into even 4HD to 6HD opponents? IME, very rarely.
As for Circle of Death, again: it won't do -anything- of note to opponents of comparable HD to the spellcaster (sure, outrightkilling 1d4HD/caster level sounds great ... but there's (of course) a save, AND, there is a 9HD cap on what it can affect; I'd've rather seen "of no more HD than the caster's level" ...
...
We won't even go into the idiocy that is "expensive material components"; Circle of Death, fixed as I propose just above, is a fair effect for a -sixth- level spell. Without the 200gp-per-casting black pearl.
IMO, especially expensive, rare, or otherwise hard-to-obtain material components should LOWER the spell's effective level. That, or be an optional way to BOOST the spell in some way (similar perhaps to the material components for evil spells, in the Book of Vile Darkness). Even just a DC boost (or turning those 1d4's into 1d6's, for C.o.Death), for example.
Lucius Foxhound
First Post
reapersaurus said:
I used to think that, too. I still think it should be a second level spell... but this spell is amazing against the various "cloud" and "fog" spells (at least the ones affected by wind).
I'd never memorize it, though. But it makes for a good scroll or perhaps as an emergency use for Shadow Evocation (another spell I thought was worthless till I began using it. Versitile spell)
ruleslawyer
Registered User
My pedantic self at work...
The spell you're describing is righteous might (Clr 5, Strength 5).
I agree that this is underpowered; I'd be fine with it as a 4th-level cleric spell, though. In general, this does raise the point that pretty much anything sucks compared to poly other/self, the most broken spell suite in the books (with the possible exception of harm). Feeblemind, for instance, is less of an insta-kill spell against an arcane spellcaster than is poly other (targets good save, albeit with a penalty, semi-incapacitates but does not kill) than poly other (targets poor save, can kill PDQ if target is turned to fish or somesuch).
I prefer animate dead to be 5th level largely because I like restricting the ability to create undead armies to higher-level arcane spellcasters. OTOH, in 3e, a 7th-level wizard probably can come up with a 5th-level cleric cohort anyway, so maybe it's fine to lower this spell's level to 4th.
I don't see how creeping doom is underpowered, especially since most characters who'll cast it (high-level druids) typically will be protected from melee attack by legions of animal companions, or will just cast the spell while wild shaped and undetectable. And it does a LOT of damage.
plavi: IMHO, your harm revision underpowers the spell a bit, but that's just me. I'd have preferred a damage cap (retaining the no-save aspect) or a Will save for half, just like all the inflict spells.
Forrester said:
The spell you're describing is righteous might (Clr 5, Strength 5).
I agree that this is underpowered; I'd be fine with it as a 4th-level cleric spell, though. In general, this does raise the point that pretty much anything sucks compared to poly other/self, the most broken spell suite in the books (with the possible exception of harm). Feeblemind, for instance, is less of an insta-kill spell against an arcane spellcaster than is poly other (targets good save, albeit with a penalty, semi-incapacitates but does not kill) than poly other (targets poor save, can kill PDQ if target is turned to fish or somesuch).
I prefer animate dead to be 5th level largely because I like restricting the ability to create undead armies to higher-level arcane spellcasters. OTOH, in 3e, a 7th-level wizard probably can come up with a 5th-level cleric cohort anyway, so maybe it's fine to lower this spell's level to 4th.
I don't see how creeping doom is underpowered, especially since most characters who'll cast it (high-level druids) typically will be protected from melee attack by legions of animal companions, or will just cast the spell while wild shaped and undetectable. And it does a LOT of damage.
plavi: IMHO, your harm revision underpowers the spell a bit, but that's just me. I'd have preferred a damage cap (retaining the no-save aspect) or a Will save for half, just like all the inflict spells.
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