Underpowered

[James McMurray]

I don't see how creeping doom is underpowered, especially since most characters who'll cast it (high-level druids) typically will be protected from melee attack by legions of animal companions, or will just cast the spell while wild shaped and undetectable. And it does a LOT of damage.

Yep, it does a lot of damage, unless the target(s) have DR 1/x, in which case it does none. Its great for wiping out goobs, but so are many other powers or spells available to a high level party.

It may not be underpowered, but it certinly isn't as useful as it looks at first glance.

 

[Pax]

Re: My pedantic self at work...

I prefer animate dead to be 5th level largely because I like restricting the ability to create undead armies to higher-level arcane spellcasters. OTOH, in 3e, a 7th-level wizard probably can come up with a 5th-level cleric cohort anyway, so maybe it's fine to lower this spell's level to 4th.

Animate DEad should be Sor/Wiz 3. IT is to Necromancers what Fireball is to most otehr wizards.

On top of which, it won't result in "armies" of anything; you can only control 2xCasterLevel worth of undead. Standard, made-from-human-remains Skeletons and Zombies are 1HD and 2HD respectively. So if it were a 5th level spell, oh dear, the Wizard could have 5 zombies, or 10 skeletons.

No offense ... but 5 zombies, 10 skeletons, or even BOTH at once ... is, IMO, not n army. Not even close.

 

[Destil]

I used to think that, too. I still think it should be a second level spell... but this spell is amazing against the various "cloud" and "fog" spells (at least the ones affected by wind).

I'd never memorize it, though. But it makes for a good scroll or perhaps as an emergency use for Shadow Evocation (another spell I thought was worthless till I began using it. Versitile spell)

I usted to think that, too. But like I said, the area of effect is only 10 feet wide by 10 feet high out to meidum range, and it has to start at you. With thoes dimentions it's hardly useful when dealing with large cloud at most you can cut a gash though it.

If you want to really deal with thoes sorts of spells you want a psion with the vastly superior 2nd level power control air. (Which scales indefenatly, you can create hurricanes at epic levels for a meager 3 power points!)

 

[plavi]

Re: My pedantic self at work...

plavi: IMHO, your harm revision underpowers the spell a bit, but that's just me. I'd have preferred a damage cap (retaining the no-save aspect) or a Will save for half, just like all the inflict spells.

Hi, I don't exactly see what you mean. It does have a save for half, though I can hardly see what half damage would be for a spell that takes all your hitpoints. When you save it takes half you hitpoints?

How would you have written it? I'm open to suggestion (not the spell, just the social interaction method... )

Chris

 

[Baumi]

I always found Flame Arrow underpowered.

Compared to Fireball or Lightning Bolt it does less Damage until 12th Level (where you have much better spells) it only hit one target or you have to split the damage, you have to hit with a ranged touch attack, the Range is only Medium and the enemy still gets a Reflex/half Save.

The secondary Use (flaming normal Arrows) would be interesting if there where not the limitations of 1 round and only a 10 feet radius.

So have anyone seen a good use for it?

Besides I still looking for a good 3rd Level Spell that Attacks only one target like Magic Missile, anyone can point me to one??

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yep, it does a lot of damage, unless the target(s) have DR 1/x, in which case it does none. Its great for wiping out goobs, but so are many other powers or spells available to a high level party.

It may not be underpowered, but it certinly isn't as useful as it looks at first glance.

Beg pardon, but how many PCs do you know who have damage reduction? It's not exactly a common quality in anything that's not a dragon, construct, elemental, or outsider. "Goobs"? So is a high-level PC-class individual a goob? Most I've seen aren't walking around with DR.

IMHO, creeping doom isn't to be used to target armies of mooks; it's for PC parties, each of whose members (except for the barbarian and 20th-level monk) stand to take hundreds of hp in damage in the second round of the spell unless they get out right quick.

I'm not saying it's broken, just definitely not underpowered. And try it against something with a 10'x10' face for REAL damage-dealing potential.

Pax: Your point is taken. Since they lack the ability to rebuke undead, wizards are stuck with a limited number of servants using animate dead. However, it is worth keeping in mind how blamed useful animate dead is. For a 5th-level caster, having up to ten servants under your absolute control acting as "point men" to set off traps, open doors, and serving as general cannon fodder is much better than having a celestial dire badger or small elemental at your beck and call for 5 rounds (summon monster III), especially considering the fact that AD doesn't take up a spell slot, since you'd already have cast it. AD isn't a combat spell; it's a (very good) utility spell. I certainly can see the argument that the spell is the necromancer's bread and butter, but keep in mind that it's not as sucky as you might think at first glance.

Plavi: I'd write harm like this...
_________________________________

Harm
Necromancy
Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6, Drd 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Harm charges a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points. On a successful save, the subject instead loses half its current hit points.

If used on an undead creature, harm acts like heal.
_________________________________________

That's what I meant by "save for half."

 

[Plane Sailing]

I always found Flame Arrow underpowered.

Although flame arrow suffers from the double jeopardy of roll to hit *and* they get a reflex save (making it pretty useless against monks and rogues), it does have a couple of advantages to it.

a) it can critical hit. Not very often, naturally, but that turns a 4d6 bolt into 8d6 which is nice.

b) if carries on scaling - the bite-sized chunks mean that it evades the damage cap on 3rd level spells, and at 20th level you could throw 5 bolts at a target for 20d6 damage

c) it is more selective than a fireball (clutching at straws here!) so you can fire it into melee.

Cheers

 

[Li Shenron]

I have never seen Nystul's Magic/Undetectable Aura spells used.

I don't say they are "underpowered", but all spells that have a low HD cap may become basically useless at higher levels, and that's a pity.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Plavi: I'd write harm like this...
_________________________________

Harm
Necromancy
Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6, Drd 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Harm charges a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points. On a successful save, the subject instead loses half its current hit points.

If used on an undead creature, harm acts like heal.

Wow.. ruleslawyer .. all you need to do is change "Saving Throw: Will partial" to "Saving Throw: None" and you can be a member of S.H.I.N.Y.!

By the way, although I'm for no save a'tall, why would you have a Will save instead of a Fortitude save? A Will save doesn't seem in line with any other spell that does damage.

 

[Plane Sailing]

By the way, although I'm for no save a'tall, why would you have a Will save instead of a Fortitude save? A Will save doesn't seem in line with any other spell that does damage.

What, like inflict light wounds, inflict moderate wounds, inflict serious wounds, inflict critical wounds...