Melkor
Explorer
This is a somewhat lengthy post. Please bear with me.
According to Savage Species, a Gnoll Player Character who is a 1st Level Fighter has an ECL of 4 (Hit Dice [2] + Level Adjustment [1] + Class Level [1] = Total: 4) for the purposes of determining his Starting Equipment and the XP he would need to advance to 2nd Level as a Fighter (10,000 XP).
The Gnoll would have a Base Attack Bonus of +2 (+1 Gnoll, +1 Fighter).
The Gnoll would have the following Base Saving Throw Bonuses:
Fortitude: +5 (+3 Gnoll, +2 Fighter)
Reflex: +0 (+0 Gnoll, +0 Fighter)
Willpower: +0 Gnoll, +0 Fighter)
The Gnoll would get the Gnoll Skill Points (2 + Intelligence Mod) x 4 (based on what the 3.5 DMG says on page 172), he would also get the standard Fighter Skill points (2 + Intelligence Mod).
He would get 3 starting feats (1 for his First Hit Die, and 1 based on the Savage Species table 2-5 on page 15 when adding his 2 Hit Dice and 1 Character level for a total Character level of 3, but none for his first Class Level per page 172 of the 3.5 DMG, but 1 for the bonus feat fighters get.).
He would also get a Natural Armor Class Bonus of +1.
A 1 Hit Die Creature has the option of “dropping” that one hit die, and replacing it with his it with 1 level of a Character Class. In doing so, the creatures total ECL is his Level Adjustment + Character Class Level + 0 Hit Die [because it was replaced by his Class Level]. The Creature then takes the class’s Base Saving Throws, Base Attack Bonus, Skill Points, and Feats without adding in the Creature’s Base Saving Throws, Base Attack Bonus, Skill Points, and Feats. So a 1st Level High Elf Fighter would have a Total ECL of 1, Base Saving Throws of +2 Fort, +0 Reflex, and +0 Will, Base Attack Bonus of +1, Skill points equal to 2 + Intelligence Mod x 4, and 1 Feat for being a 1st Level Character.
As per the Savage Species “1 Hit Die Creatures” box at the bottom of page 13, a 1 Hit Die creature “may wish to keep that one Hit Die” instead of replacing it with his class level, if you choose to do so, here’s what the character would look like:
A High Elf is listed as having a Starting ECL of 1 (because of his 1 Hit Die), and a Level Adjustment of 0. If the High Elf was given a Character Class at level 1, say Fighter, it’s total ECL would be 2 (Hit Dice [1] + Level Adjustment [0] + Fighter [1] = 2).
He would have a Base Attack Bonus of +1 (+0 [High Elf] added to his Fighter BAB of +1).
He would have Base Saving throws of:
Fort: +4 (+2 High Elf, +2 Fighter)
Ref: +0 (+0 High Elf, +0 Fighter)
Will: +0 (+0 High Elf, +0 Fighter)
He would get the High Elf Skill Points (2 + Intelligence Mod) x 4 (as per the 3.5 DMG page 172, he would get the standard Fighter Skill points (2 + Intelligence Mod).
He would get 1 Feat for his 1 Hit Die (But none for his 1st Class Level, again per page 172 of the 3.5 DMG) and 1 bonus Fighter Feat, and gain new feats when his Character Level (Hit Dice + Class Levels) advanced on table 2-5 on Page 15 of the Savage Species book.
His total ECL is used when determining how many XP he needs to advance, so in this case, he would need 3000 XP to advance to Fighter 2.
Is this correct ?
Please note that the DMG contradicts Savage Species, and states on page 172 that “If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, it must start the game with one or more Class Levels, so the example above wouldn’t be allowed.
The DMG also seems to make an error in the example listed P.173 (in the left hand column under the table) lists monster with 1 Hit Die adding his Hit Die (1) to his Level Adjustment (2) to his Class Level (Rogue 2), for a Total ECL of 5, which would need 10,000 XP to advance to level 3 in the character's Rogue Class.
Using this logic, every PC Elf or Dwarf would also have an ECL of 2, 1 for it's Hit Die added to 1 for it's first Class Level....So a first level Elf Fighter would need 3000 xp to advance to second level.
What is going on here ?
According to Savage Species, a Gnoll Player Character who is a 1st Level Fighter has an ECL of 4 (Hit Dice [2] + Level Adjustment [1] + Class Level [1] = Total: 4) for the purposes of determining his Starting Equipment and the XP he would need to advance to 2nd Level as a Fighter (10,000 XP).
The Gnoll would have a Base Attack Bonus of +2 (+1 Gnoll, +1 Fighter).
The Gnoll would have the following Base Saving Throw Bonuses:
Fortitude: +5 (+3 Gnoll, +2 Fighter)
Reflex: +0 (+0 Gnoll, +0 Fighter)
Willpower: +0 Gnoll, +0 Fighter)
The Gnoll would get the Gnoll Skill Points (2 + Intelligence Mod) x 4 (based on what the 3.5 DMG says on page 172), he would also get the standard Fighter Skill points (2 + Intelligence Mod).
He would get 3 starting feats (1 for his First Hit Die, and 1 based on the Savage Species table 2-5 on page 15 when adding his 2 Hit Dice and 1 Character level for a total Character level of 3, but none for his first Class Level per page 172 of the 3.5 DMG, but 1 for the bonus feat fighters get.).
He would also get a Natural Armor Class Bonus of +1.
A 1 Hit Die Creature has the option of “dropping” that one hit die, and replacing it with his it with 1 level of a Character Class. In doing so, the creatures total ECL is his Level Adjustment + Character Class Level + 0 Hit Die [because it was replaced by his Class Level]. The Creature then takes the class’s Base Saving Throws, Base Attack Bonus, Skill Points, and Feats without adding in the Creature’s Base Saving Throws, Base Attack Bonus, Skill Points, and Feats. So a 1st Level High Elf Fighter would have a Total ECL of 1, Base Saving Throws of +2 Fort, +0 Reflex, and +0 Will, Base Attack Bonus of +1, Skill points equal to 2 + Intelligence Mod x 4, and 1 Feat for being a 1st Level Character.
As per the Savage Species “1 Hit Die Creatures” box at the bottom of page 13, a 1 Hit Die creature “may wish to keep that one Hit Die” instead of replacing it with his class level, if you choose to do so, here’s what the character would look like:
A High Elf is listed as having a Starting ECL of 1 (because of his 1 Hit Die), and a Level Adjustment of 0. If the High Elf was given a Character Class at level 1, say Fighter, it’s total ECL would be 2 (Hit Dice [1] + Level Adjustment [0] + Fighter [1] = 2).
He would have a Base Attack Bonus of +1 (+0 [High Elf] added to his Fighter BAB of +1).
He would have Base Saving throws of:
Fort: +4 (+2 High Elf, +2 Fighter)
Ref: +0 (+0 High Elf, +0 Fighter)
Will: +0 (+0 High Elf, +0 Fighter)
He would get the High Elf Skill Points (2 + Intelligence Mod) x 4 (as per the 3.5 DMG page 172, he would get the standard Fighter Skill points (2 + Intelligence Mod).
He would get 1 Feat for his 1 Hit Die (But none for his 1st Class Level, again per page 172 of the 3.5 DMG) and 1 bonus Fighter Feat, and gain new feats when his Character Level (Hit Dice + Class Levels) advanced on table 2-5 on Page 15 of the Savage Species book.
His total ECL is used when determining how many XP he needs to advance, so in this case, he would need 3000 XP to advance to Fighter 2.
Is this correct ?
Please note that the DMG contradicts Savage Species, and states on page 172 that “If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, it must start the game with one or more Class Levels, so the example above wouldn’t be allowed.
The DMG also seems to make an error in the example listed P.173 (in the left hand column under the table) lists monster with 1 Hit Die adding his Hit Die (1) to his Level Adjustment (2) to his Class Level (Rogue 2), for a Total ECL of 5, which would need 10,000 XP to advance to level 3 in the character's Rogue Class.
Using this logic, every PC Elf or Dwarf would also have an ECL of 2, 1 for it's Hit Die added to 1 for it's first Class Level....So a first level Elf Fighter would need 3000 xp to advance to second level.
What is going on here ?
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