Underwater combat?

[Zebedee]

Can someone point me to some online resources for underwater combat? More specifically, what the penalties to hit and damage are for fighting underwater? My group's up against a kraken, and I need to know how bad it is. Thanks!

 

[Darren]

You can check the 3.5 SRD on the wizards website. Download the Wilderness, Weather, and Environment section.

 

[Pinotage]

As Darren pointed out, the 3.5e SRD is start. I still find that you need to add several House Rules to that if you want to run a campaign underwater. But since you're only fighting a single combat it should do.

Some things to consider which I implement in my aquatic campaign:

Without eye protection your normal visibility is reduced by half
You can't use a shield underwater
You can't talk underwater unless you have Freedom of Movement or speak Aquan
Even if you can talk underwater with Freedom of Movement others still can't hear you unless they too have a similar effect
Casting spells with somantic components requires concentration checks
Material components can be ruined underwater (e.g. a powder)
You can cast a spell with verbal components under the influence of water breathing, but it requires a spellcraft check
Creature's gain concealment as they move towards the edge of the water visibility
Natural sea creatures with natural attacks can use their attacks at no penalty
You require a swim check against the water each round of combat to maintain your balance and position. If you fail, you can't take an action that round.
You can voluntarily fail your swim check, but that implies that you float in the direction of the current/bouyancy resulting in any AoO along the way. You can however, perform the action you want to. Handy if you're in stormy water with a poor swim check.

There are loads more, but that's enough for now.

Freedom of Movement alleviates almost all these issues, such as use of shield, spellcasting etc. I've not yet found a supplement for 3e or 3.5e that satisfactorily deals with underwater combat. Seas of Blood and the Seafarer's Handbook touch on it, but it's not nearly what I'd hoped for.

Hope that helps.

Pinotage

 

[noeuphoria]

Do you resolve Freedom of Movement as eliminating bouyancy? In our campaign, we discussed it with the DM and we resolved it as basically, you can move whatever direction you want up to your full movement while in water. Of course, we need it since we're fighting ku-toa w/swim speeds who take no penalties for attacking underwater. But just curious how you adjudicate it. If it eliminates bouyancy, I think it hurts the utility of the spell - "you jump into the ocean, since you have freedom of movement, the water doesn't hinder you, and you fall 250 feet down. Take 25d6 damage. Oh yeah, it doesn't matter since water pressure instantly crushes you."

 

[dcollins]

If it eliminates bouyancy, I think it hurts the utility of the spell - "you jump into the ocean, since you have freedom of movement, the water doesn't hinder you, and you fall 250 feet down. Take 25d6 damage...."

This interpretation was specifically vetoed in the Official FAQ.

 

[Pinotage]

No, I ruled that freedom of movement was like flying, but underwater. So you can move at your normal land speed underwater and act normally, without having to make swim checks. Weapons, armor etc. function normally, but spells don't since while you can cast them perfectly fine, there's still a huge amount of water around you that's not affected by the spell.

Without freedom of movement, you require a swim check each round to move/maintain your bouyancy.

Hope that helps.

Pinotage

 

[green slime]

Do you resolve Freedom of Movement as eliminating bouyancy? In our campaign, we discussed it with the DM and we resolved it as basically, you can move whatever direction you want up to your full movement while in water. Of course, we need it since we're fighting ku-toa w/swim speeds who take no penalties for attacking underwater. But just curious how you adjudicate it. If it eliminates bouyancy, I think it hurts the utility of the spell - "you jump into the ocean, since you have freedom of movement, the water doesn't hinder you, and you fall 250 feet down. Take 25d6 damage. Oh yeah, it doesn't matter since water pressure instantly crushes you."

The water pressure rules... Don't get me started on those.

 

[Pinotage]

I don't think they included water pressure rules in the 3.5e guidelines, so it's up to you to make up your own. While under Freedom of Movement you're unaffected by water pressure, and Water Breathing alleviates the pressure somewhat. I've ruled that you take 1d6 points of subdual damage each minute you are in water deeper than 150 ft. Fort save DC 15 negates, but this increases by +1 for each minute your spend underwater. Water Breathing increases the rate from 1 minute to 10 minutes, and the depth to 300 ft.

So with Water Breathing you can stay under much longer and go much deeper before experiencing any pressure effects. I'd also limit the maximum depth for both holding your breath and Water Breathing to something like 3 times the pressure limit (450 ft or 900 ft respectively).

While underwater, Freedom of Movement is most definitely the way to go, or get Plate Armor of the Deep and include the 3e 'pressure' ability that got dropped in 3.5e.

Pinotage

 

[Patlin]

Also, either the Helm of Underwater Action is missing a description of most of its abilities or it is completely overpriced.

Helm of Underwater Action: The wearer of this helmet can see underwater. Drawing the small lenses in compartments on either side into position before the wearer’s eyes activates the visual properties of the helm, allowing her to see five times farther than water and light conditions would allow for normal human vision. (Weeds, obstructions, and the like block vision in the usual manner.) If the command word is spoken, the helm of underwater action creates a globe of air around the wearer’s head and maintains it until the command word is spoken again, enabling her to breathe freely.
Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, water breathing; Price 57,000 gp;Weight 3 lb.

Nothing in there about negating combat penalties underwater, similar to freedom of movement, although my whole gaming group seemed to think it should. The vision thing isn't all that great. My recomendation, sell it (for 28,500 gp) and buy three of the following:

Necklace of Adaptation: This necklace is a heavy chain with a platinum medallion. The magic of the necklace wraps the wearer in a shell of fresh air, making him immune to all harmful vapors and gases (such as cloudkill and stinking cloud effects, as well as inhaled poisons) and allowing him to breathe, even underwater or in a vacuum.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, alter self; Price 9,000 gp.