underwhelmed with Neverwinter Campaign Setting

[Neverfate]

This is, from what I can tell, an example of that extra broadness I was saying may or may not be worth the extra cost, of the NWCS vs. something like Hammerfast, depending on your mileage and how it varies. If you already have the FRCS and/or access to old maps... or are willing to put in the extra work to create your own maps, including that breadth concerning Thay is great. Otherwise it's just wasted words at a higher price.

Or you know, could make a player/DM want to purchase the FRCG to expand out into the rest of Toril or the Shadowfell book or the planes book. You have to have hooks in it for other products.

Besides: broadness isn't really avoidable when you have one area on an entire planet which itself that's already been highly detailed. Something from the "outside" is bound to slip in.

 

[Umbran]

Um, probably still rubbish. The U.S. Census Bureau indicates that in 2009, just shy of 70% of U.S. households have broadband access.

Okay, so even fewer folks have internet access than I said. How is this in favor of your argument?

The point is, "Just get it on Amazon, it is cheaper," doesn't necessarily solve the problem, for whatever reason.

 

[Votan]

Um, probably still rubbish. The U.S. Census Bureau indicates that in 2009, just shy of 70% of U.S. households have broadband access. I mean let's be real, it's 2011, not 2000--the audience for RPGs today almost universally has internet access at home. You can barely even apply for a job without internet access these days.

Computer and Internet Use - Internet Use in the United States: October 2009 - U.S. Census Bureau

I think there is a reasonable difference between a trip to the library to try and apply for employment (or a visit to a center that helps such people out) and the ability to use public computers reliably for ordering from Amazing or use of the DDI. Heck, it is possible to have surprising issues with package delivery if you are poor, in a big city and do not have a car.

But, in any case, that isn't germane to the book, per se. The marginal of buy or not buy is unlikely to be that tightly wedded to the sticker price.

 

[ki11erDM]

I am a devoted non-fan of the Realms.

But the book is more or less exactly what I want out of a self-contained sandbox setting.

-O

I could not agree with this more. It is exactly what I want.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

3. The four hobby store owners I know in the area all hold second jobs and make around $10- 14,000 USD take home annually from their store. My take on that is that the hobby store industry doesn't make enough money in its current configuration to sustain itself long term except in particular circumstances.

My statement to you earlier had nothing to do with insulting you or your preferences, it's just simply that all of the strategic forces in the pub industry align to the death of the RPG browsing store approach considering the flattening effect of the Internet. The things that you like won't be able to be supported given the required sales price to make the product move.

Of course, that's unless the browsing stores turn into cafes and have another stream of income to keep them liquid. That seems to be a solid approach provided you're not supporting too large a location. (Didn't save Borders because the stores were too big etc.)
Last edited by Kobold Boots; Today at 08:25 AM..

There are going to be regional differences on how the hobby fares in B&M stores. I live in a tiny suburb of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, and I can think of 3 excellent pure gaming/comic stores within a 30 min. drive of my house...and one recently expanded. None are part cafe, and only a few offer gaming space. Another 10 minutes gets me to a Games Workshop store. Furthermore, we have a local gaming/comic chain (Lone Star Comics) that has 6-7 locations scattered all over the Metroplex.

Of the stores I frequented that have closed in the last 5 years, the problem was less about sales and more about location. Two were located in aging big malls with rising rents and changing demographics. Another was in a strip mall also saddled with changing demographics and a landlord who felt he could do better with a different tenant (at higher rents)- that space stayed empty nearly 2 years. The last closed due to non-business reasons- the owner had to close one of his locations because he couldn't afford the commute time due to changes in personal life (he was needed more at home).

Of the stores I frequented in San Antonio and Austin, the stories are much the same: a couple have closed, but the better one's have thrived and expanded.

 

[Matt James]

This entire thread got derailed to game stores and the census bureau? :?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Okay, so even fewer folks have internet access than I said. How is this in favor of your argument?

The point is, "Just get it on Amazon, it is cheaper," doesn't necessarily solve the problem, for whatever reason.

Besides Internet access or lack thereof, there is also the question of whether you have the ability to pay for something online. Not in the sense of having the money, but rather, having a PayPal account* or the right kind of credit card. Or having a credit card at all.





* I don't have one

 

[Dead Scribe]

Honestly, where except for when I claimed the write-ups were only a paragraph (which I later conceded I was in error about) have I mis-represented what is in the book. I mentioned themes and the bladesinger class in my second or third post and said NWCS was broader. No, IMO, your issue definitely seems more concerned with my preference for Hammerfast over NWCS as a better buy for the cost.

Dude, I really don't care. I'm glad you like Hammerfast. I do too. But this entire thread seems to basically consist of people who haven't read the Neverwinter Campaign Guide criticizing the book (I guess I'll take the OP at his word that he read the book, but his complaints are so vague, they suggest to me that he hasn't read it very thoroughly or carefully). I've merely been trying to give people who read the thread, and who may be curious about the product, an accurate view of what it is.

And I guess I've done that, and people can continue talking about the plight of D&D-playing luddites. I'll keep an eye out for any posts people make that actually have something to do with the contents of the Neverwinter Campaign Guide.

 

[S'mon]

Dude, I really don't care. I'm glad you like Hammerfast. I do too. But this entire thread seems to basically consist of people who haven't read the Neverwinter Campaign Guide criticizing the book.

Don't forget the people who haven't read the Neverwinter Campaign Guide who are vehemently supporting it, too! I guess it arouses strong emotions...

I know my feelings are always influenced by the money I paid, and it's not WoTC's fault I got the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for £12 but got ripped off by amazon.co.uk for over £27 for the NWCG. At price parity I'd probably regard them as comparable. I did look at some of the WotC teaser stuff before purchase, but again I'd feel differently if I'd had a clearer idea of the content; I thought it would be a more traditional city sourcebook in the mould of the 2e Greyhawk box set, which had tons of adventures and statted NPCs as well as some factions. It never occurred to me you could release a 'city' book without actually detailing the city or including adventures set in that city.

I think maybe the Themes are the key. I bought it thinking of adding Neverwinter to an ongoing campaign, but the discussion of Themes upthread makes clear that they are the intended starting point - you create fresh 1st level PCs for your Neverwinter campaign, each PC picks a theme, and the campaign generates from there. The DM is still doing lots of work to flesh out the city, create adventures & encounters, but everyone has direction & motivation from this starting point. It's not a bad idea, but it's not what I expected, it means I can't get value from the product simply by adding it to an ongoing campaign, and since I'm loving my existing Loudwater campaign and don't want to drop it, that means I basically can't use this.

 

[Dead Scribe]

I think maybe the Themes are the key. I bought it thinking of adding Neverwinter to an ongoing campaign, but the discussion of Themes upthread makes clear that they are the intended starting point - you create fresh 1st level PCs for your Neverwinter campaign, each PC picks a theme, and the campaign generates from there. The DM is still doing lots of work to flesh out the city, create adventures & encounters, but everyone has direction & motivation from this starting point. It's not a bad idea, but it's not what I expected, it means I can't get value from the product simply by adding it to an ongoing campaign, and since I'm loving my existing Loudwater campaign and don't want to drop it, that means I basically can't use this.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's useless, particularly since Loudwater isn't that far from Neverwinter and probably shares similar enemies. But you are otherwise correct--it's most useful as a starting point for a new campaign, not as something you drop into an existing one.