Unearthed Arcana LA Buyoff s it too good

[yipwyg]

I'm toying with letting PC's buy off their LA's. I was wondering what others thoughts on it are. I have heard from some people that it is too good. This is due to the fact that eventually the PC will catch up to the others, instead of always being lower in character class levels than they are.

Thoughts

 

[Sammael]

The main point is to allow a LA-PC to catch up with the others. Basically, while they may seem very good at lower levels, the advantages of LA +1 or LA +2 races slowly begin to mean less and less, until they are nearly completely worthless at high levels (I'd say 12+) because they are not significant enough to matter. One possible exception to this would be Spell Resistance, but items that grant SR are readily available for the right price. Thus, while a LA +1 character's unbalanced Str bonus was a big deal when he had a total of +7 to hit, it's nearly meaningless when his total equals +25 or so.

 

[yipwyg]

Cool. This is what I plan on doing.

Someone wants to play a lizardman
2 HD + 1 LA

I'm going to have the player start as follows

1st level - 1st level of humanoid ECL - 2
2nd level - 2nd level of humanoid ECL - 3
3rd level - 1st class level ECL - 4
4th level - 2nd class level ECL - 5
5th level - 3rd class level ECL - 6

At this point he is ECL - 6, (2 racial HD + 1 LA + 3 class levels)

He can then buy off his Level Adjustment by instead of leveling up to another class level, reverting back down to 4th level (basically losing 4,000 xp)

After lowering his level by one, he becomes ECL - 4 (2 Racial HD, 2 Class Levels)

Does this make sense?

 

[yipwyg]

Just found a break in the LA reduction rules in Unearthed Arcana

Race has 0 Hd and has a level Adjustment

At 3 class levels you can buy off the LA by paying ECL-1*1000 xp.

3rd class level is ECL 4 for race 4-1 = 3 so he loses 3,000 xp. This means he loses all xp and drops back to 1st level.

 

[arscott]

If your concerned about characters catching up, why not allow them to buy of their LA for purposes of level advancement, but continute to use their full ecl for the purposes of how much xp they get from encounters?

 

[nogray]

LA Reduction Process

Race has 0 Hd and has a level Adjustment

At 3 class levels you can buy off the LA by paying ECL-1*1000 xp.

3rd class level is ECL 4 for race 4-1 = 3 so he loses 3,000 xp. This means he loses all xp and drops back to 1st level.

Almost right. The option can be found fully explained on page 18-19 of Unearthed Arcana.

For a race that has no racial HD and a LA of +1, he can buy off the LA when he reaches 3 class levels (ECL 4). This happens at 6000 xp for that character. (Note that this is the same xp total as a "regular" 4th level character.) Upon reaching 3rd level (ECL 4), the character can buy off the LA, reducing his xp total by the 3000 that yipwyg mentioned. This makes him a 3rd level character with 3000 xp.

One thing to note is that any racial hit dice are not counted in the level required. The example from UA is that a gnoll (with a LA of +1 and 2 racial hit dice) has to wait until his third class level. That would mean that upon reaching 3rd level (ECL = 3+2(racial HD)+1(LA) = 6), it would lose (6-1)*1000 = 5000 xp and the LA, becoming an ECL 5 (3 class + 2 racial) character.

Basically, you lose the xp for the level you would have just gained and, instead of advancing, your LA goes down. You can't start buying off LA until you reach a class level of 3*your LA, and you can only buy off the LA at the specific levels shown. (For example, the LA +1 set can only buy off their LA after/at their class level of 3. The +2 set (Drow, for instance) can only buy off their LA at levels 6 and 9.

Hope that clarifies.

As to the desirability of doing this or whether it is unbalancing, I don't have any experience with it. It looks okay, particularly because LA seems costly for the "powers" most races give, especially to caster classes.

 

[arscott]

It really does depend, though.

Some of the LA races I've seen are specifically designed with stuff that scales based on HD so that the LA remains important. The LA buyoff would probably be overpowered for charaters with those races.

 

[Victim]

The main point is to allow a LA-PC to catch up with the others. Basically, while they may seem very good at lower levels, the advantages of LA +1 or LA +2 races slowly begin to mean less and less, until they are nearly completely worthless at high levels (I'd say 12+) because they are not significant enough to matter. One possible exception to this would be Spell Resistance, but items that grant SR are readily available for the right price. Thus, while a LA +1 character's unbalanced Str bonus was a big deal when he had a total of +7 to hit, it's nearly meaningless when his total equals +25 or so.

I disagree. At low levels, LA is especially crippling since the character is missing a fraction of the other character's HD. A second level PC with 1st level HP can be in a bit of trouble even with better stats and some special abilities, and most high LA races make the problem worse. A 1st level half dragon in a 4th level group will drop in one hit. On the other hand, at higher levels the fragility of an LA character has mostly faded while they retain the benefits of their race. While the 1st level half dragon is a glass cannon compared to a 4th level fighter, the 17th one is stronger offensively due to the STR bonus and defensively via the Con boost, natural armor, and immunities.

 

[Sammael]

The half-dragon and similar munchkiny bizarro creatures are too unbalanced to even be considered in this discussion. Generally, I don't think LA works at all beyond +2 for creatures with no racial HD.

 

[brehobit]

I disagree. At low levels, LA is especially crippling since the character is missing a fraction of the other character's HD. A second level PC with 1st level HP can be in a bit of trouble even with better stats and some special abilities, and most high LA races make the problem worse. A 1st level half dragon in a 4th level group will drop in one hit. On the other hand, at higher levels the fragility of an LA character has mostly faded while they retain the benefits of their race. While the 1st level half dragon is a glass cannon compared to a 4th level fighter, the 17th one is stronger offensively due to the STR bonus and defensively via the Con boost, natural armor, and immunities.

Yep, I have to agree.

Even ignoring half-dragons and similar templates, in general non-caster LA creatures already are catching up at higher levels. Having a +6 CON, for example, starts to get you caught up with the human fighter in hit points, even without the rules for buying off LA. And who plays pure casters with LA?