Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Presents Alternative Encounter Building Guidelines

WotC's Mike Mearls has posted the latest Unearthed Arcana, presenting an alternate set of encounter-building guidelines for D&D. "Though this approach uses the same basic math underlying the encounter system presented in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, it makes a few adjustments to how it presents that math to produce a more flexible system. These guidelines will be of interest to DMs who want to emphasize combat in their games, who want to ensure that a foe isn’t too deadly for a specific group of characters, and who want to understand the relationship between a character’s level and a monster’s challenge rating."

It's four pages, and includes various tables divided into a series of five steps - Assess the Characters, Encounter Size, Determine Numbers and Challenge Ratings, Select Monsters, and Add Complications. The latter step includes d8 monster personalities, d6 monster relationships, terrain, traps, and random events. Find it here.


Original post by MechaTarrasque said:
At the D&D website:
 

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I used "fair" and "balanced". Which is something that spawned out of 3e: encounters have a budget and use 24% of your resources, and you have four per day. Which continued into 4e.
No it didn't. Nowhere does 4e say that you have four encounters per day.

Where you had encounters that you had a good chance of winning with decent tactical play.

<snip>

You could see how this affected people by the playtest reports from early 5e, where they put people into the Keep on the Borderlands unmodified, and there were numerous TPKs from "unbalanced" encounters that weren't nearly as challenging in 1e, because players didn't assume a fair fight.
Either the encounters in KotB are winnable with decent play, or they're not. (Or is your point that what counts as "decent play" is edition relative? I think that would obviously be true.)

What are your most memorable encounters?
How many encounters are memorable because they were balanced and fair? Because they were textbook encounters right out of the book.

<snip>

I postulate that what makes a fun, exciting, and memorable encounter has very, very little to do with the rules designed to make a balanced encounter. And very often, the best way to make a memorable incident in the game, is to ignore those rules.
In 4e there are no "textbook encounter right out of the book". There are guidelines that tell you (i) how difficult an encounter is likely to be, in mechanical terms, and (ii) how it relates to pacing (via the milestone rules). In my experience these guidelines are fairly accurate, though (unsurprisingly) the higher the PCs' level, the more you can push the upper end of the scale.

As for being memorable: why would being balanced and fair be a cause of an encounter being memorable? My claim is that it is not an obstacle to an encounter being memorable. Which is a denial of your claim that it is.

Here are just two examples of many from my 4e game: a skill challenge and a fight.
 

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I'm sorry, I had to stop here. Maybe after I get over my fit of laughing.
To be fair, AD&D is very forgiving in a way: when your character dies (which isn't all that unlikely, since even coming back from the dead is potentially lethal in that game), it doesn't take much time to make a new one, even if you are getting to make a replacement character that is higher than 1st level.
 

No it didn't. Nowhere does 4e say that you have four encounters per day.
Exactly four? No. But it did assume a ballpark of 3-5 encounters in terms of balance. That's how they arrived at the number of healing surges and balanced player abilities. They didn't just pull that number from the aether.

Hence the number of encounters in the DMG adventure, and in Dungeon Delves and how there was a "break" point to rest every few encounter areas in the published adventures.

Either the encounters in KotB are winnable with decent play, or they're not. (Or is your point that what counts as "decent play" is edition relative? I think that would obviously be true.)
You use "decent play" above, but I actually said "decent tactical play". Which is a difference. You could "win" many Keep on the Borderlands adventures by being sneaky or luring enemies into a trap. Using cunning strategic play. You often couldn't win in a straight fight: the monsters had the advantage of terrain and numbers and would slaughter a frontal assault.

In 3e and 4e, baseline encounters were designed so you wouldn't face that kind of unfair fight that required lateral thinking. Encounters were a tactical puzzle that could be "solved" through coordinated use of powers. There wasn't just going to be a room with 17 kobolds hanging around, possibly serving as reinforcements.

In 4e there are no "textbook encounter right out of the book".
Please refer to page 58 and 59 of the DMG. Really, pages 56-59+ layout a by-the-book encounter. Which is what I'm talking about, designing encounters by following "the rules".

Yes, as a DM you *could* continue to design encounters by 1e guidelines or ignore the rules laid out in the book. But that's not the baseline. But that's houseruling the game. And there's no real point in discussing how a heavily house ruled version of the game played, because there's no common ground for discussion.

There are guidelines that tell you (i) how difficult an encounter is likely to be, in mechanical terms, and (ii) how it relates to pacing (via the milestone rules). In my experience these guidelines are fairly accurate, though (unsurprisingly) the higher the PCs' level, the more you can push the upper end of the scale.
Right. And the rules tell you the maximum difficulty for an encounter. If you're playing by the rules, you're not going to put a party against an encounter with a budget outside of their expected level range.
Hence the encounters are "fair". If the DM is playing by the rules, you always have a good chance to win in a straight fight.

As for being memorable: why would being balanced and fair be a cause of an encounter being memorable? My claim is that it is not an obstacle to an encounter being memorable. Which is a denial of your claim that it is.
Straight fights can be fun to play. But there's nothing inherently special with them.

Provided the fight is an appropriate challenge, the difference between a couple orcs in a 10 ft x 10 ft room and two dozen balors in a 100 ft x 100 ft platform is largely numbers. Nothing in a balanced encounter makes it memorable. Nothing in a standard encounter is special. It's just going through the motions. It's fun to play and could have a wide variety or story implications and roleplaying moments, but nothing in a straight fight becomes fun to retell. It's just that fight where everyone rolled expected numbers, used an appropriate amount of resources, and took an average amount of damage. We've all had that fight a dozen times and there's no point in telling that story. It's just not memorable.

What makes a fight memorable is everything else. All the stuff that isn't in the book, that isn't covered by the encounter building rules.
 

I gave up using the MM almost a year ago. It's a nice window piece at this point but the power-levels are absolutely idiotic when building an encounter at an y level and it just gets worse once you're past level 5. Almost every monster I throw at the party, from a level 1 bandit to a level 20 ancient dragon monk/sorcerer is redesigned from the ground up using the following metrics:
HP determines how long I want the fight to take against that mob.
AC determines how often I want my players to hit the mob.
DPR determines how high I want the stakes to be.

Everything else is fluff. Doesn't matter if its a dragon or a kraken or Bob from Accounting. And frankly, I've figured out one thing that every monster I design has in common: the monster design goals for 5E are completely bumpkis. Everything hits like a kitten, takes hits like a pothead and generally eats it in 5 rounds or less while providing no real threat to the party unless a whole friggen flight of dragons descends upon them backed up by a veritable army of kobolds, in which case I simply win by statistical chance (I'll crit more often than you will, aka: I win because math).

Maybe parties of bumbling idiots are still threatened by whatever WOTC had in mind, but I should hope that their design goals for 5E were not "Lets market this game to idiots!" Because really, marketing to noobs is fine, but you expect noobs to get better, idiots don't.

Exactly how many rounds do you expect your average encounter to last? 5 rounds or less seems like a good number. Why does that feel so short to you?
 

To be fair, AD&D is very forgiving in a way: when your character dies (which isn't all that unlikely, since even coming back from the dead is potentially lethal in that game), it doesn't take much time to make a new one, even if you are getting to make a replacement character that is higher than 1st level.

5E is just as quick when it comes to character creation. You're choosing from approximately the same number of options: ability scores, race, class, skills vs. weapon and non-weapon proficiencies, spells. At higher levels 5E has you choose feats but that's not much difference; and AD&D had a lot more spell complexity anyway. E.g. more spells to choose from, having to choose how many copies of each spell to memorize.

5E character creation can be done in two to five minutes if you neglect spell-choosing; I don't think AD&D (2nd edition at least, nor I presume 1st) was significantly faster than that.
 

Exactly how many rounds do you expect your average encounter to last? 5 rounds or less seems like a good number. Why does that feel so short to you?

Maybe because it signals that the two parties are just walking up and hitting each other until someone dies?

The encounters I remember best are the ones that took minutes or hours of game time to resolve, with important decision-making within the encounter. Gambling with giants, fleeing from warg-riders, playing murderous hide-and-seek Spy vs. Spy games with drow, riddling with dragons, ramming and boarding a neogi deathspider!!!, etc.
 

5E is just as quick when it comes to character creation.
Depending on which optional rules are being used, yes, that can be true. But at their most basic, no optional rules making things more complicated or time consuming, AD&D has a slightly faster character creation process - especially 2nd edition, since the default ability score generation method doesn't involve choosing where to place your scores, and in most classes there are no choices made past your race (if your scores allowed for any choice beside human), and your equipment.
5E character creation can be done in two to five minutes if you neglect spell-choosing; I don't think AD&D (2nd edition at least, nor I presume 1st) was significantly faster than that.
I wasn't aware that I had claimed that AD&D was significantly faster than that, nor that it would have to be significantly faster in order to be accurately referred to as not taking much time.
 

Exactly how many rounds do you expect your average encounter to last? 5 rounds or less seems like a good number. Why does that feel so short to you?

Because it doesn't feel cinematic enough for my tastes. There's no time to raise the stakes or have something unpredictable happen.
 

So either Gygax was confused about his own game, or AD&D absolutely was built for balance.

I played enough 1E to entertain the idea that Gygax was confused about his own game. ;) (Or at least, the game design equivalent of an "unreliable narrator." A lot of what he wrote was motivated as much by external factors such as marketing and brand protection as it was by what actually happened at the gaming table.)

Seriously tho, the "balance" of AD&D is mostly race/class combos relative to each other, rather than characters against the world. Parties were larger and made up of characters of different levels (sometimes wildly different), and encounter building advice boiled down to "put tougher stuff on deeper levels" and what numbers were "baked in" to the random encounter tables. Seeing that skeletons were on "1st level" encounter tables while wights were on "3rd level" (or whatever it actually was, it's been a long time) told the budding homebrew DM that wights were probably not something to mess around with for a starting level party. But Keep On the Borderlands has an ogre in one cave, a minotaur in another, and rooms with 20+ orcs just sitting there, where 1st level parties could blunder into them.

3E, and particularly 4E, weren't made with that kind of a mindset, for better or worse. 5E isn't really either, but has enough wiggle room that it can be played that way.

-The Gneech :cool:
 

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