Unholy Weapons as a Test of Loyalty?

[Gizzard]

I was reflecting on what sort of initiation an Neutral/Evil organization like a Thieves Guild might have. In a magical world, it would seem pretty straightforward to create an ornate Unholy Dagger and have any potential recruits hold the item as they swear loyalty. If they are good-aligned, then the dagger will hurt them and the Guild can re-consider admittance.

I suppose a Paperweight of Detect Alignment is a surer and cheaper way of doing the same thing, but it doesnt have much style.

What other methods could a Guild apply to assure that its inductees are (probably) not spies? And what methods could infiltrating law officers use to dodge these tests?

 

[Nightfall]

Murdering inncents always seems to work for most groups.

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

In a large setting, regular innocent killings will not draw undue attention, but if the organization is set up somewhere smaller, or somewhere more strongly lawful and/or good aligned, where the murders would draw enough attention to put the group at serious risk of discovery and destruction, then something a little more subtle is needed.

 

[CCamfield]

In the assassin school in Terry Pratchett's books, there is a "final exam" whose final portion is killing someone lying on a bed with a crossbow (for it to make sense, using a ranged weapon would be required).

It's actually just a bundle of cloth under a blanket, but the point is, if you have something that LOOKS like a person, you can use something like that to test whether or not someone is willing to kill for you. It could be a carefully made mannequin of some sort, or even an illusion.

 

[Zappo]

In a large setting, regular innocent killings will not draw undue attention, but if the organization is set up somewhere smaller, or somewhere more strongly lawful and/or good aligned, where the murders would draw enough attention to put the group at serious risk of discovery and destruction, then something a little more subtle is needed.

Then again, in a small setting, an evil organization likely isn't recruiting a new member every week.

 

[nameless]

Given that wily rogues may be good with Use Magic Device, and/or alignment concealing magic, I don't think Detect Alignment OR Unholiness are good enough. Honestly, it probably takes some good old-fashioned spy work to see if a guildmaster is being duped.

-nameless

 

[Dareoon Dalandrove]

Namless is right, rogues can be slippery and hard to nail down with items like this. It is a good role playing element though.

 

[Gizzard]

Honestly, it probably takes some good old-fashioned spy work to see if a guildmaster is being duped.

I have no problem with that; its much cooler than the probable alternative which would be some sort of simple, infallible magic test for spies or traitors.

Murdering inncents always seems to work for most groups.

Although I cant argue with that, I'm not sure that it would be a good test for a Thieves Guild. There may be plenty of talented but non-violent burgulars, for instance, who would happily steal for you but would balk at cold-blooded murder.

I'd be curious what percentage of the soldiers of the Mafia (our modern equivalent of the Thieves Guild?) have committed a murder. I'd suspect that even those who have killed people have generally not killed "innocent" people; the likely victims would be other gangsters or people who didnt pay their loan sharking debts etc. People with some relation to the criminal in question.

My point there is that if its too much for the Mafia, its too much for my vision of the Thieves Guild.

 

[nameless]

Here's the trick though: the most qualified rogues are the ones most likely to fool the "foolproof" tests. Murder is a good test of loyalty, but all it really does is weed out the people with a backbone from the spineless ones.

Then again, having a powerful rogue under your thumb is dangerous business. Maybe the guildmaster would rather have some goofball who can burglarize a house than one who can burglarize the royal treasury, just based on risk of betrayal.

Lots of stuff to think about here

-nameless